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P88man perspective

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by P88F, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. P88F

    P88F BoltTalker

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    Blah blah blah its preseason blah....... Our first team sucked big time today! I was soo pissed off with there play, I did not end up paying to much attention to the game. How did our secondary do, besides Mcree getting torched for that TD. Did Cro play any? how did Oliver do? I saw Weddle get thta INT, but how did he do?
     
  2. PhillyChargerFan

    PhillyChargerFan Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were done :icon_shrug: :icon_huh:
     
  3. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    Didn't see much of Cro but Oliver looked really really good.
     
  4. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    WR - B+

    SP Teams - c

    Secondary - c

    Oline - d

    QB - ?? no time

    RB - A

    Dline - ??

    LB ??
     
  5. Steve

    Steve BoltTalker

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    Our secondary needs to learn how to help pass off the receivers and work together. Much like last season, if you watch a single CB or S they are individually doing OK, but they don't work together for tighter cover. McCree play summed it up pretty good. He was in the right spot before the ball was thrown, but didn't break on the ball and react to it. Most of the time it looked like the DB's either didn't know where they had help or if they did the help was there too late.

    If we want a serious secondary, that has to change and tighten up. Weddle looked like the best S we had just because he was moving to the ball the best.
     
  6. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Do you blame that TD on:

    1) McCree because he didn't read the QB or the route very well to help out

    2) Jammer for getting beat in Man to man coverage

    3) Some blame for both

    I'd go with three. It was clearly Jammer's man in man-to-man coverage and if he does his job and covers the guy the safety help doesn't matter. BUT, McCree is there in case a CB gets beat deep and he was of no help because he didn't read it very well at all or was anticipating a shorter throw to an underneath WR.
     
  7. oldschool1

    oldschool1 BoltTalker

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    We didn't get much push on the running plays. With the starters taken out, the offensive game didn't get into any rhythm. Volek looked really comfortable with Turner's offensive system. I think our tall WRs were NOT able to get much separation and looked very shaky early in the game. Yes, we really missed Parker today. Buster Davis looked like a veteran and not a rookie. Ryon Bingham did an adequate job at DE, I'm not impressed with his speed but he did keep the running game at bay. He adds nice bulk which clogs up running lanes and keeps blockers busy.

    Overall, the whole team looked pretty rusty. Expect it to shake off by the next game.

    Oldie Out
     
  8. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    You have to blame McCree. It wasn't man to man coverage. They were playing "quarters. Each of the 4 DBs was responsible for a quarter. McCree didn't cover his quarter. Jammer was in perfect position for the coverage they were playing.
     
  9. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    Well if they were playing cover 4 (at least that's what we used to call it)... then we've got nothing to worry about. You won't see that coverage much during the season unless it's during a "prevent" situation.

    I only saw the play once, but I thought it was cover two because of the way Jammer forced the WR to Mcree.

    EDIT: Either way though, you're right... it's all Mcree's play to make (or blow).
     
  10. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    Correct. McCree looked like he was trying to track a UFO.
     
  11. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    I seriously doubt they were in quarters.

    If anyone has it on utube it would be appreciated. I don't have it on tape so I've only seen it once and one replay.
     
  12. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    Even Michaels and Madden called it and the play was replayed several times including slo-mo. It was McCree's responsibility to take him, help out, cover him, not let him get over the top.....however you want to put it.
     
  13. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Help over the top I can see and I said in the original question. Help over the top does not mean that the CB couldn't cover the guy as well and not NEED the help over the top. I'm pretty sure Madden didn't try to say we were running quarters.

    Jammer seemed pretty intent on trying to stay for the guy stride for stride for me to believe he was handing off coverage to McCree and was no longer responsible. If that was McCree's area of a zone and not part of Jammer's coverage area Jammer did an amazing job of trying to cover McCree's *** & in the process had no worries about running out of his Zone area if the pass went to another receiver. Jammer was staying on that guy for a reason. It was his man.

    hell its a preseason game. Giving up a TD isn't a big deal either way. I think Jammer and McCree BOTH would like to of played that pass better.

    Maybe this would make it more clear...Sometimes responsibilities overlap in pass defense. It's McCree's responsibility to help if Jammer gets beat on his responsibility.
     
  14. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    That is EXACTLY what he said. If someone has the telecast on youtube, you'll see the same. Look, if you don't want to believe me, that's fine. I'm just telling you exactly what he said. By the way, they even came back from commercial a few minutes later and he telestrated the damn play in slow motion. Again, he stated that in fact the bolts were playing quarters and that it wasn't so much Jammer's fault as it was McCree's since that was his quarter....blah, blah, blah.
     
  15. P88F

    P88F BoltTalker

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    They were in quarters.
     
  16. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Like I said, I didn't see all those replays. I saw it live and one replay. I'd like to see the utube if anyone has it.

    Nothing personal at all man. Just quarters doesn't make sense with what I saw. Obviously I didn't see all the replays so there might be something in those that sheds some light.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to get the feeling like I just told my kid that Santa doesn't really exist and he doesn't want to let go. :lol:

    Just kidding. I know it's tough to tell at first...especially live. I had the advantage of watching all the replays, plus the slo-mo in glorious HD on a 46" LCD tv. Let's just say I could even see Trumpet Man up in the View section violating his horn in ways I never thought possible. Once you see the replay, you can tell right away.
     
  18. gobigblue

    gobigblue BoltTalker

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    Both offense and defense played base formations. I'm sure the playbook won't open up until September 9th. Funny things is, that offense looked alot like Cams offense last year!!!

    At best, we had a 4 man rush most of the game. If anything, I'm inspired by the few CB blitz we had. Wade never blitzed his CBs last year. Could that be an influence of Rivera?
     
  19. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    We'll have much more to go on after next weeks game. I would bet that there will be some scorched behinds during the first team meeting.
     
  20. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    That's EXACTLY what Madden said. He said they were in quarters. If you go back and watch the tape, McCree was in no man's land. It's not like he even got caught covering someone else. He was just lost, as if he didn't know Branch could get that deep that quick. If you watch McCree's reaction to the TD, you can tell that he knew it was his fault.

    Whether it was Cover 2 or Cover 4, McCree would still be to blame. Cover 2 is a zone defense where each safety is responsible for a deep half of the field. In cover 2, the CB is supposed to make sure that the receiver can't get deep to the outside, because the safety would have too much ground to cover to break up the pass. But Branch ran a post. The safety should be all over the post in cover 2.
     
  21. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    "Prevent defense" is actually called a Cover 6 or some other special grouping.

    COVER 6 is a definite long pass defense. IN MOST SITUATIONS IT IS USED ONLY ON THE LAST PLAY OF THE HALF OR GAME WHEN THE OBJECT IS TO PREVENT THE OTHER TEAM FROM SCORING.

    IN COVER 6 THE SS DROPS BACK WITH THE OTHER DEEP SECONDARY DEFENDERS (HB, FS, AND CB). EACH OF THESE DEFENDERS TAKE A DEEP 1/4 OF THE FIELD SPREADING THEMSELVES OUT ACROSS THE FIELD AT A DEPTH OF 15-20 YARDS OR MORE AS THE SITUATION INDICATES.

    THE SAM AND WILL LB'ERS ALIGN IN THE FLAT TO THEIR SIDE AT A DEPTH OF 8-10 YARDS.THE MIKE LB'ER ALIGNS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FORMATION ALSO AT A DEPTH OF 8-10 YARDS. THE PURPOSE OF THE DEFENSE IS TO PREVENT THE SCORE. THIS DEFENSE IS CALLED USUALLY ONLY WHEN THERE IS LESS THAN 10 SECONDS TO GO ON THE CLOCK.

    IT IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE DEFENSIVE FRONT TO MAINTAIN LEVERAGE ON THE QB AND NOT ALLOW HIM TO BREAK CONTAIN. AS ALWAYS, RUSH THE QB FROM THE OUTSIDE IN.

    Cover 4 is quartering the field against the pass and is a zone and man defense. Sometimes Cover 4 is referred to as a hybrid (they are all hybrids to a certain extent). Cover 4 is also known as a 1/2 man and 1/2 zone type of defense because responsiblities get handed off.
     
  22. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    I don't have it recorded, so I can't go back and watch it. That's why I've asked if anyone has seen it on utube.
    Anyone come through with that?
     
  23. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Stop making excuses. If you haven't seen it, why are you arguing with the many people who have? Maybe you should just take our word for it.
     
  24. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    What excuses am I making and what arguing am I doing? Just asking if anyone has it on utube.

    Who had the deep quarter on the other sideline? Hell I'd just like to see the replay for myself. Is that so wrong?
     
  25. Steve

    Steve BoltTalker

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    One of the other ways you can look at it is think about McCree being the FS. I dodn't know about anyone else, but the first thing a pee wee coach told me about playing S years ago was never let the guy get behind you. McCree let the guy get right behind him and the ball went right over his head. Yes, there are lot of rotating coverages where a S can be rotated up to play a short zone, but this wasn't one of those (if it was he was way out of position).

    Trumpie, all zone defenses hand off responsibilities if the guy moves into another zone. The reason the cover 4 is considered a hybrid is that the underneath coverage by the LB. Those guy have only 3 zones to cover the width of the field. To cover all that real estate, they are almost playing man coverage, and in fact some teams do play man coverage underneath the 4 DB in zone coverage.
     
  26. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    That is why I said all defenses are hybrids as well (oooppsss...in another thread). Even Cover 0 which is man'd up, the safety always is the last line of defense.

    Defenses man up underneath and transition to zone but that is what is suppose to happen and why it is called half man and half zone. Just because you have zone over the top and man underneath as you indicated "some teams play", that is suppose to be done in Covers 0-6 (man / zone schemes) so all teams should be playing this scheme and not just some. That is the scheme in those coverages and that is man up underneath and zone over the top.

    How the coverages are rolled and floated and pinched depend on personnel and what the offense is trying to dictate. For instance, if teams are running the **** out of the ball, Cover One would be called which allows the SS to cheat up and provide run and or pass support or blitz.
     
  27. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    OK, so I just watched it again on TiVo:
    The saddest part about Mcree's F'up is that no one was threatening his zone except for Branch!! The backs, tight end, and wideout (on D'flo's side) all ran short routes. Nobody ran more than 13yd route. Mcree just stood there watching Hasselbeck... and Hasselbeck is staring down Branch nearly the entire time. His checkdown was the tight end who was somewhat open, but only about 6 yards downfield.

    Stupid, stupid play by Mcree... regardless of what defense they were playing.
     
  28. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Here's some of your arguments and excuses:

    "I seriously doubt they were in quarters.

    Just quarters doesn't make sense with what I saw. Obviously I didn't see all the replays so there might be something in those that sheds some light.

    I'm pretty sure Madden didn't try to say we were running quarters"

    You continually argued the point that it was not quarters with at least three other posters who had all seen the play more times than you, from more angles, with commentary. You even said you were "pretty sure" that Maddent didn't try to say it was quarters when you had not seen the broadcast.

    Once you were schooled, instead of saying, "Oops, I was too presumptuous," you parroted, "Well, I have not seen the replay..." Sounds like an excuse to me. Not seeing the replay is a reason not too argue with those who had seen the play more times than you, not an excuse for being wrong.
     
  29. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. It wasn't like the offensive design got the best of us. There wasn't a tight end running up the seam that sucked McCree towards him. Marlon was just lost. Bad, bad play by Marlon. Hopefully, it's out of his system
     
  30. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    I haven't argued the point once since they said that's what was pointed out in the broadcast. I would like to see it for myself because it doesn't seem to make sense with the way Jammer played the WR. That's not arguing with ANYONE or making any EXCUSES.

    In my three options I even picked 3, which was McCree screwed up the play as well. It's not like I'm trying to say McCree wasn't at fault here. I think I've said from the beginning that McCree misread the play completely. He could have a safety assignment that takes him away from deep coverage, but I don't think that's the case here. I think he just blew the assignment.

    I don't know what the hell you are sensitive about. I just want to see the replay for myself.
     

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