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Planning for the worst possible draft scenario

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by matilack, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Heard it here first..

    Hardwick is for sure coming back, and starting.
    Vasquez has to be back, we wouldn't make it our main priority if we had no interest. And if he isn't looks like Troutman will be our starter, with Tyronne Green returning on the other side.
    Gaither & Clary's situations are up in the air, one or both will be cut.
    Either a 1st or 2nd rounder will be spent on the OL, whether at guard or tackle and will most likely be a starter.

    there ya go, common sense.
     
  2. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    So yesterday, Jawan Jamison who ran a 4.68 at the combine, improved that to 4.65 at his proday.

    5th- 6th rounder
     
  3. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Lol yeah definitely a 5th-6th rounder with all 32 NFL teams in attendance!

    4.6 isn't even bad, but I guess it is in your book. I'm over the argument anyways, he'll be training with Ray Rice as well, so you know the kid is gonna get pushed. All 32 NFL teams in attendance..
     
  4. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Just a hunch but I'm assuming Khaseem Greene was what majority of teams were there for, as well as Logan Ryan.
     
  5. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    4.65 is what it was and im just pointing out he didnt really improve on his time. And if he were not a small RB, that wouldnt matter as much. Training w/ Rice wont make him faster.

    Im not really trying to argue.. I never liked him for us anyways.
     
  6. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Your right, but..

    Khaseem Greene is a 2nd rounder.
    Logan Ryan is a 3rd rounder, possibly late 2nd rounder.
    Jawan Jamison is a 3rd rounder, possibly 4th rounder.

    I was just making the point as well, these are most likely top 100 prospects in the draft. There's good value in all these players, and Jamison isn't a 5th-6th rounder, at least to NFL scouts.
     
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  7. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Just watch, he will be. Not like you hang outwith NFL scouts to know what they think.
     
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  8. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I agree there, there are a ton of mid-round RB's that can come in here for us and make the difference. That's why I can't wait to see who it is. I really think a 3rd rounder will be spent on a RB, and he'll be in the fold similar to how Ronnie Hillman was in Denver this past year. Hopefully with a little more production.

    I just didn't think it was fair to rule the kid out cause he ran a 4.65..
     
  9. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    4.6 is pretty bad I run 4.54 and theres no way i should be faster than any rb on our roster :eek:
     
  10. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Why would they pick a small slow RB like Jamison when they can probably get Franklin, Ball orEllington? Thats all im saying. Im not down on Jamison , just that he doesnt make sense for us being small and not real quick or fast. He didnt just run a 4.65, he had the worst 10 yard time of every RB at the combine. Ball had a 4.65 time as well but he is bigger, had a beter 10 yard time and had good a shuttle and 3 cone times.

    Im not one to fawn over straight line speed but you have to have some quicks and agility. Especially if you are small.

    And BTW, Hillman ran a 4.42 and is quick. His 10 yard time was 1.54 to Jamisons 1.68 and had a 37' vert to Jamisons 29". Hillman has some good explosion.

    I agree we will see a RB round 3 or 4 but i doubt it is Jamison.
     
  11. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    Care to change your common sense? :D
     
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  12. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Lol, sure. I think everybody is quite surprised what happened there. But I never said he will be back.
     
  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He's short not small.

    I'm just gonna say it one more time. Your focusing on the numbers too much. Football isn't a game of 40 times, bench presses, broad jumps, etc. Look at his tape, it's impressive.

    And Hillman's biggest worry for NFL teams was his explosiveness with the ball in his hands and when getting to the 2nd level despite his 4.42. So..
     
  14. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Yes i know. This isnt my first draft i have watched or my first season watching football. I been a Chargers fan since early 70's. What i have told you before is i have seen his tape. He isnt very fast and why i went and looked at his numbers because i saw a RB who got ran down all the time. I dont see him having great success in the NFL and he only averaged 4.1 YPC in college.

    He is never going to be a featured RB in the NFL so he has to have something else and what he needs is speed and quickness at his size and he dont have it. He is comparable to Sproles in size but he doesnt have Sproles speed or quickness .

    Sproles was just an absolute stud in college. I dont know if you ever saw him at Kansas St but compared to Jamison's tape, Jamison does not compare at all.
     
  15. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    Not to be arrogant but i believe i am very good at judging a rb's tape and i wouldnt want jawan james bc in my opinion he lacks the explosiveness in his tape and the combine just confirms what i already knew... he plays like a scat back and was effective at rutgers but i dont believe he has the athleticism/explosiveness to be effective in the nfl bc of his running style... what was a 50 yard td at rutgers for him would be an 11 yard run in the nfl
     
  16. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Actually rumor has it Khaseem Greene is an extremely polarizing running back among pro scouting departments. A heavy one-third think he's borderline 1st round talent, the rest think he shouldn't be touched until Day 3.
     
  17. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Sounds like Tank Carrdine's stock is rising, possible late 1st. :(

    Damn, and I thought we could look brilliant getting him in the 3rd or even 4th a few months ago.
     
  18. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    What do you think about Trevardo Williams?

    I actually think the guy could go late 1st or early 2nd round, he's the kind of LB that ends up playing for the Ravens, Steelers or with Chuck P in Indy. I think he sets the edge VERY well for only being 240, and he has some good double moves and gets off the snap extremely fast.
     
  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Don't know that he goes that high but I've got firm 2nd round stock on him. He's definitely an explosive athletic who times the snap exceedingly well. Where I have some questions is his ability to convert speed to power when rushing - that's something that will come with added bulk, but his technique is also pretty raw (needs to refine the pass-rush moves he has and needs to add more to the arsenal). His instincts aren't great, probably never will be, but he can improve his awareness as he grows and the instincts shouldn't be a detracting issue long-term.

    I'd say he's a pretty solid comparison to Bruce Irvin, so it wouldn't shock me to see him sneak into the bottom of the 1st, but it's going to be a case of a team knowing they've got a niche for him to contribute in early while he's continuing to develop. Wouldn't be shocked to see Jacksonville look at him as a LEO option if they don't address that position in the 1st.
     
  20. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    Kahseem Greene is a RB? Maybe a hybrid player? hahaha
     
  21. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Allen Bradford, who Pete Carroll had at USC and now in Seattle, converted from RB to LB.. Just throwing it out there, though he was a 6th round pick.
     
  22. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    @RapSheet: That is the rumor RT @NFL_ATL Dolphins eyeing trade up for Oklahoma OT Lane Johnson? http://t.co/mG6ccJfQDT…
     
  23. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I am worried Johnson won't be there at 11 but at the same time I think he will be, if you look at all the rumors, they all suggest teams saying they're going to trade up for Johnson, honestly If they had the pieces to do so wouldn't you think they would move up for Fisher or Joeckel?

    KC could move back or take top LT, DT, or Pass Rusher. But Jax I see going either QB or Pass Rusher, Oak needs a DT, Det needs one of the top DE's or Milliner but I think DM at 5 is a bit too rich, Cleveland could take Milliner or trade back and still possibly get him or next top CB.

    I think these LT's are very good but I also think all 3 are being slightly over valued compared to the defensive players, If you were sitting there with Star, D Jordan, Mingo, Ansah, and Johnson (and you weren't SD in dire need of a LT) which player would you chose?
     
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  24. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am almost certain that Johnson will not make it out of the top 10. I have been for weeks. I posted a couple of weeks ago saying that I remember when Johnson was mocked to us at 11, and now we will likely have to trade up to get him. JMO. I don't sit in draft rooms, or claim to know what is being done in them. However, it's the trend of the draft where once the elite are off the board, then teams start to panic. All of this really just depends on where Fisher and Joeckel go.

    Just for instance if Fisher and Joeckel go in the top 4. Then I think there is no possible way Johnson makes it out of the top 10, not only are there 2 or 3 teams that could take him in the top 10, but teams like Mia, etc....will be trying to trade in front of us to get him. Now if Joeckel or Fisher goes 1 or 2 but say teams 3-7 range value the Dion Jordan's, Shariff Floyds, and Milliner's of the world above the next LT, and either Fisher or Joeckel falls to the 6-8 range, then I think it becomes a bit more likely he could fall to us. Only because teams like Tennessee would have to be overwhelmed by a trade to move back because we are potentially in the running for a guard as well.

    I mean I personally think that Fisher is light years above Joeckel. So to me, Johnson staying in the top 10 depends where the other two go. Teams in the top 10 will have to make a decision on the fly based on what has fallen to them at that point. This top 10 to me is the most wide open I have seen it in years 15 years. Teams have a ton of needs, and there are no real sure fire, cant miss prospects. You have 2 guards that could go in the top 10, a CB likely to be a top 5 pick, 3 LT's,2 + DT's (I've seen Sheldon Richardson there but do not believe he should be), Multiple DE's, and OLB's. I mean read the mocks, you will see guys like Star as high as 1, and as low and 15-18. Dion Jordan is the same way, as high as #2 and low as 14-16 range. No one knows where the first QB will go, teams that look like they should draft a QB may go with another postion banking on the one they got in FA.

    It's a crazy draft, and I love it!
     
  25. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    "Every single mock draft has the Cardinals going offensive line. There's no doubt that there's a definite need. But remember they were missing their left tackle a year ago. If they go Eric Fisher, OK. If they go Luke Joeckel, yes. If those guys are there, I'd be surprised if they didn't go that direction... But if a pass-rusher falls, then I can easily seem them going that route because Steve Keim, the new general manager, is a former offensive lineman himself. He trusts his ability to scout that position. And so if a pass-rusher is there I would not be surprised to see the Cardinals refrain from going offensive lineman until Rounds 2 or 3 - maybe a safety in there. One thing Steve Keim will not do is reach. He'll take the best player available." - Paul Calvisi, Cardinals Radio Network
     
  26. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Could be BS but Arians did say he thinks Levi Brown is elite and the Cards didnt have him last season. Makes sense to me but you never know. Many draftnics dont take those things into account. They just know they didnt have good play at LT. Tough to say what KC and AZ will do.
     
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  27. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    This also coming from a Cardinals talking head, If they weren't confident in Levi Brown as some suggest they aren't I'm sure a beat writer would get all UT like suggesting "they simply can't go into the season with Levi Brown as their LT" The guy insisted that Levi is coming back which will make them likely to go in a different direction.
     
  28. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I really liked that last article written by Krasovic. It's about Kiper playing the broken record suggesting San Diego needs to move up to Cleveland's pick to get Johnson.

    "If Johnson in fact is rising--- at this rate, he'll be in Canten in June"

    "Here's what I think about trading up: I dislike it. Depth is the foremost strength of this draft. (other parts saying how Fisher and Johnson can be very good, but not Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden or Walter Jones type players)
    If the Chargers do make a trade, moving down, not up, could make more sense"

    Now here's what I thought was the bread and butter of this article

    "I also think this Fisher/Johnson buzz is pleasing to Browns general manager Michael Lombardi, who lacks a second round pick and needs to guage what trade value the no.6 pick may have. For what it's worth, Lombardi is a former sports writer and broadcaster who has many friends in Big Media"
     
  29. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Well, Arians stated Levi Brown will not move inside to OG or move across the line to ROT, because he likes Bobbie Massie. He has said, he believes Nate Potter could swing inside to OG and possibly be a swing depth tackle.

    Call me crazy, but I think Eric Fisher could drop to us a #11, which will leave the Miami Dolphins very content with taking Lane Johnson at #12. Just my opinion.

    1. KC - Luke Joeckel OT
    2. JAX - Dion Jordan OLB,DE
    3. OAK - Shariff Floyd DT
    4. PHI - Star Lotulelei DT
    5. DET - Ziggy Ansah DE
    6. CLE - Dee Milliner CB/Jarvis Jones OLB
    7. ARI - Kenny Vaccaro FS,SS/Dee Milliner CB
    8. BUF - Geno Smith QB
    9. NYJ - Barkevious Mingo OLB
    10. TENN - Jonathan Cooper OG
    11. SD - Eric Fisher OT
    12. MIA - Lane Johnson OT

    But, I say this is 50-50. Its really tough to tell what some teams will do this year. Honestly, Arizona has some terrible interior OL play, but part of me believes they'll take Chance Warmack, and the other part of me suggests that, their GM is Steve Keim, and they will go BPA, and I do think Kenny Vaccaro is a top-10 talent. I could also see Arizona going Arthur Brown, since they'll still be in the 3-4 to pair with Daryl Washington, who is suspended for 4 games, or possibly Barkevious Mingo, as an OLB. Arizona is the toughest team to predict.
     
  30. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I think Jordan could fall to 7, Miami trades up for Fisher with Cleveland, I believe Milliners likeliest destination could be NYJ if they do in fact trade away Revis. Either way SD could sit pat and grab a LT
     

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