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Pre-Season Game 2 impressions...

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by matilack, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I thought defense wins championships. ;)
     
  2. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    You'll never hear me say that.

    I would argue health wins championships.
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Talent wins championships, would be a better saying.

    An excerpt from Acee's column today......

    Former head coach Norv Turner at times could project shortcomings elsewhere. But he was positively Norv-stradamus when he departed Chargers Park in January with this gem about the deficiency of talent on the Chargers’ roster: “There are no quick fixes.”

    Well, the Chargers’ new brass is currently faced with the leftover mess of that reality. But it won’t buy in entirely. While McCoy and Telesco have not hidden from the work to do, they are certainly not going to cede their chances to win right away.

    As the No. 2 personnel man in Indianapolis last year, Telesco at least had a hand in the Colts signing 19 outside players between Sept. 1 and the end of the regular season last year. That patchwork played a part in a young team getting to the playoffs.

    “We’re going to do whatever we can to help the football team out, regardless of where the players are coming from,” McCoy said Saturday. “The next two weeks become the – I hate to say – bad part of the business. We’ve got a lot of young players and veteran players that have worked extremely hard all offseason their entire careers, some young some old and you’ve got to make cuts after the next two weeks. It’s all part of the business. It’s not something I’m looking forward to, but we’ve got to find the best 53 guys.”

    Some of those guys are currently in Seattle and Atlanta and Denver and Cincinnati.
     
  4. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Rosters win.

    Health & coaching come next.

    Lastly, a sweet uni can only help :abq1:Ask the poor Browns ;)
     
  5. ssnake86

    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    Why? Why can't we cut CBJ? Thats potentially a very important roster spot with the team lacking in depth in other areas.
     
  6. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Because if Rivers gets blindsided and misses a game or two...I'd rather have CBJ hold the fort down than a rookie 7th rounder from the Blue Sky conference.
     
  7. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    CBJ just signed a big 2-year contract 5 months ago.

    And though his play has been uneven, at this point he's just much more experienced than Sorensen.

    So far, though, I think Sorenson has slightly outplayed CBJ, and so I think we hold on to him,
    and re-evaluate down the road. If things continue as they have, I'd expect Sorensen to be the #2
    this time a year from now, at the latest.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    True, but anyone who does get hurt is suspect. Not worth the crap season to get the #1 at any rate.
     
  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Hasn't AJ taught you that it's always best to just roll the dice? ;)
     
  10. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    My impression of preseason is the lack of talent on this team. A team that doesn't have many great players, and still a significant drop from 1st team and second team talent wise.
     
  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Be careful, you're beginning to sound like Norv, when on his exit he suggested that fans should be patient. ;)
     
  12. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    Lol he wasn't lying. This team is a wreck, and it's amazing how we were one of the most talented teams in the nfl if not the most talented and how bad we look now. This isn't a few pieces away this is going to be a rebuild unfortunately, but now it's up to MM and TT on how they want to do the rebuild, and how soon they want to get back to contending.
     
  13. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    I was recently placed under the impression that leading with the crown of your helmet/lowering your head/spearing was "illegal".
    Maybe none of this happened and I'm not interpreting it right after watching the replay?
     
  14. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Despite what the present media hype and draftnik sights would have folks believe Bridgewater isn't the consensus top QB in this class. Most certainly in the running and the likely leading candidate as things stand right now? Sure. But (my Oregon fanhood aside, this is coming from folks I've talked to who have insight into what NFL scouts are looking for or will take a shine to) Marcus Mariota is apparently very highly thought of among the scout community and the dark horse right now (though probably not for the #1 overall, but possibly as the "small school"/"where did he come from?" 1st round QB option is the kid out of Cornell, Jeff Matthews - though he's going to need to have a standout season to really elevate his stock properly).

    I'm not as sold on Bridgewater yet as some are - I see a lot of Vince Young in him just based off of last year's film, so I'll be paying close attention to see if he shakes some of those same bad habits that VY had this season (also, he's no lock for the Heisman considering that Louisville is pretty likely to drop one game in the Big East that they really shouldn't and when you're not coming from an established program, your team's W/L record has a major effect on your Heisman stock).

    Personally, if we don't bring in an LOT in the 1st round, my fingers are crossed for (barring us picking Top 5 or something) someone the likes of Trent Murphy from Stanford (fits the mold of the kind of players Telesco and McCoy took a shine to in this past draft) or Bradley Roby (legit shutdown corner prospect, and while I do agree Wright has very nice potential, his ceiling isn't anywhere close to Roby's). I wouldn't really argue a ton with Marquise Lee (though I think he's smaller than advertised and I've got a man-crush on Brandon Coleman) aside from the fact that I've always been an advocate of investing no higher than mid-20's or later 1st round picks in WR's unless you're getting a do-everything, athletic freak prospect the likes of Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson (doesn't really merit being mentioned here as he's on a whole different physical level than any receiver prospect since arguably Randy Moss), or AJ Green. 1st year receivers rarely make a huge impact right out the gate, so reserving selecting guys until the late 1st or into the 2nd and getting the guy who has the physical tools but needs refinement (a la Vincent Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Torrey Smith) is generally the wiser approach.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Health and, in the modern league, high-level QB play at the right time (in December and January) wins championships. Of late the teams that have made the Super Bowl have been the teams whose QB's get the hottest at the tail of the season and carry that over to the playoffs.
     
  16. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I believe spearing is when the defender leaves his feet and dives head first at a defenseless player. Regardless of helmet contact.

    Lowering the head/helmet to helmet, is when the defender intentionally uses his helmet to make first contact with the ball carrier.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    If we finish with a top 5 pick who do you suggest us picking, and can you see it being anything other then a QB? I think if we finish with a top 5 pick it's time to move on from Rivers, and hopefully we can trade him rather then releasing him. I think a team might see he still has potential, but didn't have the pieces around him and we might get some decent compensation. This team has many holes, and is already up against the cap next year so I think there will be a significant amount of players that will be released to build this team back up. What do you guys think about this?
     
  18. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    My top 5 as of now would be

    Jadeveon Clowney OLB

    Cyrus Koujando OT (would be very cool to have both Bama tackles on the edges)

    Anthony Barr OLB

    Bradly Rody CB

    Marquis Lee WR

    I second the (man crush on Coleman) He sort of reminds me of if Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd had a baby, it would be Coleman
     
  19. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    I like Bradly Roby a lot also, but do you expect to keep Rivers if we finish in the top 5 in the draft?
     
  20. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I do, I honestly don't believe Rivers time is up, but I do the the time is now to pick his replacement to watch and learn for when Rivers does leave it'll be a Favre/Rodgers like transition.

    Not a Warner/Leinart, Anderson, Skelton, guy sitting in seat 5 row 14, Kolb, Skelton transition.
     
  21. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    So you wouldn't suggest drafting a QB with our top 5 pick if that's where we are picking?
     
  22. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    No, unless it was Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, RG3, Stafford or even a Bradford type player I wouldn't

    I honestly would rather get Clowney, Lee, Roby etc. (border line elite player) and hope and pray the next, Brees, Kaepernick, Dalton, or Wilson are sitting there in the 2nd round.

    Worst case scenario, we would have a damn good Barr, or Clowney type player while we search for a QB with Rivers still under center (if that makes any sense)

    There are too many Alex Smith's, Trent Edwards, Blaine Gabbert's, Mark Sanchez's out there where if you take a QB just because he plays QB it could set you back farther than if you swung and missed on another position IMO.

    Plus it's too early to tell TBH. If Rivers throws for 4,000 yards 36 TD's 12 INT's and we're still picking in the top 5 because the defense failed to hold up their end of the bargain. or if ST gives up a ton of yards and TD's, or if the O line gives up another 50 something sacks would it really be placed on Rivers again?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  23. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    I like Jeff Matthews a lot from Cornell who will be a second day player in the draft. The Chargers are already up against the cap, and if we don't make some significant cuts we may fall into last place in the division. The Raiders have about $60m in salary cap available next year, and as much as we want to hold onto players I think we need to free up some money to go out and acquire multiple players who can start for us, and add some depth. Some of those cuts may be hard to swallow but I think guys like Rivers, Gates, Floyd need to have a good season and if we are picking in the top 5 that most likely won't be the case.
     
  24. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    It's a little to early for me to worry about next season when this years games haven't even been started yet. I'm more interested in what McCoy brings to the table when the games start counting. I like the quickness in which the offense seems to operate between plays, it doesn't look like a Chinese fire drill any longer. McCoy has more to prove at this point as a leader of men when the seconds start counting, than what Whitehurst is going to do if called on to play.

    I'm not expecting a complete turn around in his first season, although, it could happen. The uptempo theme and limiting mistakes can go a long ways on the scoreboard where blue collar type players may still a victory or two by just doing their individual job right. Something I have never known the Bolts for is the ability to overcome mistakes and go on to win the game after seemingly shooting themselves in the foot.

    For my money, I'm laying it all at McCoys feet. I'm looking more for improvement and growth than I am for quick wins and shabby play. Steady and disciplined play on the field from all three fronts will win more games in the long run by forcing the other team to play perfect ball from the opening kickoff.
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    His head was in front of the player, contact was with the shoulder initially. As close to textbook as you are going to find.
     
  26. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Without starting a new thread I would like to share an answer to the question I wrote to Tom Krasovic on the usage of Ladarius Green


    Thomas Krasovic:
    Ryan, yes, I think Green will be getting substantial playing time in the regular season, and no, I don't think Gates or Phillips need to be hurt. Ken Whisenhunt, a Dan Henning protege, believes in using multiple TEs. Green is earning trust. He is running past defenders. His blocking needed to improve, and it has improved. He's not a finished product, but he is someone the Chargers need to develop. Part of that is throwing him the ball.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Depends on what or how he's willing to re-do his contract. Rivers isn't owed any further guaranteed monies on his contract after this season and as we've seen massively trending in the league lately, the most important number in any contract to the player is the guaranteed amount. If Rivers is willing to restructure his contract in such a way that extends it by 2 years from as it currently stands, converts 70-80% of his due ~$20m base salary for 2014 to "bonus," thus making it guaranteed (and likely guaranteeing his ability to see a full slate of game checks for 2014 and 2015), while bringing his 2015, 2016, and 2017 to more manageable amounts (even if it was 15m as opposed to the 20-22m I believe he's due in 2015, that's fair savings in terms of useful cap space)... it's definitely something to consider.

    Really it will come down to Rivers, I think. Personally, I think he's the type of guy that does want to play only one place for his entire career and takes pride in that. And he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to be hung up on being "the highest paid QB" or "not making as much as Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan". But I'm sure he'd want some assurances from management that his (monetary) sacrifice would be put to use in a fashion that would directly affect him on the field (i.e. a top-tier - within the free agent class - OL). Does that cap space gained also give us wiggle-room to extend our own that deserve it (Butler, Liuget - who likely not in 2014 but should be extended while he has 2 years left on his rookie deal as opposed to 1 if for no other reason than to get out ahead of guys like Watt, Suh, Gerald McCoy, and Wilkerson getting their 2nd contracts, as those will be benchmarks expected to be met in an successive deal signed by any young, promising player at that interior DL position.
     
  28. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    What if Rivers puts up similar #'s as he has the last two years and there is a feeling we can draft a franchise QB with our pick do you still keep Rivers? He is due 15m next year but 13.8 is base, and 15.75m with no bonus so if you let him go or possibly trade him for a second or third round pick then you can go out and sign 2 quality players with that money. Meachem, Royal, possibly Floyd cuts can sign the draft picks and some of Butlers extension. Depending on Green's progression and Gates field of play it might make Gates take a salary cut or possibly make him expendable.

    It's hard to see the Chargers getting much better without being able to acquire multiple players in FA, and through the draft. This team is very thin and needs a big turn around if they want to compete soon. The Raiders will most likely have a top 5 pick, and 60-70 million to spend in free agency, so they are going to look to make huge strides and I feel we can't sit and wait to rebuild this team which I think is inevitable.
     
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    If he puts up numbers like last year, it really depends on the context (the turnovers aside, his stats actually weren't that bad, he just had some very poorly timed turnovers and the team's record as a whole was sub-standard). It's possible that he would have some trade value, but honestly I'd just as soon give him his outright release than trade him for a 3rd or 4th round pick (if his performance this season is similar to last season's in context, he has roughly the same value as Carson Palmer had this year... maybe less because of the money he'd be owed).

    The next two years worth of draft classes (depending on who comes out when) look stronger than we've seen in a while (outside of the Luck/RG3 year), but a Top 5 pick alone is not enough to guarantee you get your QB prospect (without a tradeup) even in a year with a defensive prospect like Clowney coming out. Moreover, until we fix the OL, I wouldn't want to stick ANY rookie QB back there as they'd run a major risk of becoming the next David Carr.
    I'm not a Manziel fan - even if the QB option is here to stay in the NFL for the time being - I don't see much ceiling in Manziel. Bridgewater looks as though he could be legit, but isn't as polished as people want to say he is.

    I like Mariota, though there will be questions about his size possibly (hopefully Russell Wilson can dispel that some in folks; but MM is probably closer to 6'2" and change than a full 6'3", and he's lighter than his listed 210 lbs.).

    Both McCarron and Murray are much more products of the players around them than great players themselves, both look like future redux of Christian Ponder.

    I want/need to see more of him, but thus far I'm a big supporter of Kevin Hogan, but I also think he's smart enough to not declare in the same year that Bridgewater and Manziel will and where there will be a host of senior prospects that will garner at least some interest (Fales, Carr, Boyd, Mathews). And it's not like Stanford's not going to be a national contender for the next several years with the way they've been recruiting.

    Similarly I need to see more from Brett Hundley. The tools look like their there physically, but his decision-making and the mental aspects of the game still leave me questioning some. If it weren't for the advent of running QB's becoming resurgent in the NFL last season, I'm not sure he'd be getting quite the attention he is right now off his play alone.

    The sleeper prospect to watch for is Devin Gardner. Don't know that he comes out in 2014 unless he absolutely blows up, but he's got two of the best QB minds in college football working with him (Brady Hoke and George Whitfield), will have a quality supporting cast, and has a live arm.

    And then there's Stephen Morris. He's raw - yeah I know, a guy posting multiple 400-yard passing games wouldn't seem like he's that raw, but his technique is pretty damn sloppy. He's smaller than he's billed (The U is notorious for this... even Corona Doug will own up to it). But he may just be a guy who has that "it" factor. That said, as it stands right now I see him as a really risky pick (big time boom/bust sort), where he could explode as a Russell Wilson type or he could stall out on his technique and be another Blaine Gabbert (or Jake Locker if he doesn't progress this season).
     
  30. daygoboy6191

    daygoboy6191 BoltTalker

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    I don't Like Fales or Carr at all from what I've seen so far, but we still have a full season for further evaluations. Fales looks like a poor mans Dalton, and Carr makes some horrible decisions from what I've seen. Gardner seems like he has all the tools, but can he put it all together, with learning how to man the position. Right now he seems like a great athlete with all the skills, but in the NFL you cannot play off of just athletic ability as a QB. The U is just one of those places you don't draft a QB from, but maybe this guy will be the exception but we will see.

    As far as Rivers if he produces the same stats, and I meant the turnovers especially when I said that then I am more then happy with letting him go trade or no trade. We need an overhaul done to this team to try to get some talent all over the team not just some here and there, but even more so to add multiple players who can help us shorten the rebuilding process.
     

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