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Question about Rivers sack numbers

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by DenverBolt67, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I am curious what everyone thinks. Rivers was sacked the 3rd most in the entire NFL last year. What do you attribute that to? Is it the line, is it the playcalling, is it Rivers holding onto the ball too long, or an equal combo of all 3? I am just curious what everyone thinks.
     
  2. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather Rivers hold on to the ball too long and get sacked than to see him make a stupid throw and watch it picked off.

    Either way, I blame the line more than anything else.
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    The Chargers main threat was via the air last season. How do you stop that, blitz blitz and blitz again.
     
  4. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. It's been a long time since I was comfortable with our pass protection.
     
  5. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I agree it was the line that should hold most of the blame.

    I ask because there is a guy over on ESPN who is always saying how much better the Chargers line is compared to New Orleans (he is a huge Brees lover). I pointed out that Rivers has been sacked 34 more times in the last 4 years, and has been sacked more times every single year.

    It doesn't make sense to me to say a guy who has been sacked less by such a wide margin over a 4 year stretch, has a worse line.
     
  6. 1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp

    1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp Jesus gives wisdom if you pray for it! Banned

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  7. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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  8. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    No one asked you
     
  9. 1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp

    1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp Jesus gives wisdom if you pray for it! Banned

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    How many sacks do u think big Ben avoids by throwing players out of his way? How many sacks does Drew Bree's save rolling out? I'll say our wide receiver routes DO contribute to this failure. If the WR are doing deep outs or deep hooks, they will not be open for long time. Add to this Rivers is one of if not the most immobile QB in the NFL. U think its easy to move with knee braces on? He is wearing some just like his offensive lineman LOL>

    PR worst trait is it seems like he has never been trained on how to step up in the pocket. There is a reason Bill Walsh designed the 3 step drop... It forced QB's to never be in what i call the dead zone. The exact spot PR ends up in all he time. I learned about this in college. 10-12 yds deep will get u killed by DE's or outside blitzers. This is when i decided to switch sports when coach didn't want me to keep running for TD's every time the line broke down or he wanted me back deep.

    Do u think some day the fans will agree with me we need either a new system that works for immobile QB or a mobile QB? Trips me out... wouldn't u want your best athlete playing QB?
     
  10. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    And Michael Vick just runs away from it, what's your point? Different play styles
     
  11. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    And why is Payton Manning never in the top of the league in times getting sacked when he is less mobile that Rivers?

    Mobility is not the end all be all of a QB. Their job is to throw the ball, not be a running back. I'll take an accurate thrower over someone who can scramble any day.

    By the way, once again, your input was not asked for nor is it welcome. Go away
     
  12. 1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp

    1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp Jesus gives wisdom if you pray for it! Banned

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    Just the fact that PR is 3rd sack leader should be huge red flag for the fans that something is wrong. Our system is wrong our coaching of our QB position is wrong. Our ability to deal with blitzes is wrong, I watch so many games and just don't see an intelligent system of picking up blitzers in a blitz league? Our lack of not training our QB proper pocket presence and footwork/breathing is bad. I don't know where to stop =/.

    Payton manning is in a winning system. The WR routes that are mostly used by the Colts are 90% proper. They 90% throw quick slants/post/corner routes & quick WR screen & if DB plays off WR. The other 10% they do seem routes/fades and bomb's I approve of the COLTS system. Imagine if they could do away with their bad routes they have some of(Hook routes). They are years ahead of the Chargers tactically TBH. If they had our talent they would have won 5 more SB's already.

    We do not use this system like i said. We should. Never does PM end up in the dead zone. Also he is trained on how to step up even more in the pocket. He shuffles his feet like the top QB he is. I teach pro level and understand the value of shuffling your feet (factually allows you to throw the ball quicker and stay loose) and proper breathing tech (Factually forces you to stay loose even if u mind messed up). Also stepping through your throws, hip turn, shoulder rotation etc. Imagine if i worked with PR :). PM hasn't been taught proper breathing yet he could still improve scary. None of what PR has been trained how to do yet.

    Imagine if i was empowered to led this team...My system my play calling my techniques my playbook of proven plays. No bad plays ever. I could train PR on how to call plays and reteach him footwork and pocket presence and reads and who is hot read on each play ect. He would almost never get sacked. If u love your players you protect them, with a near sack-free system. PR would love me if he could handle my changing of his footwork breathing and taking off those knee braces he wouldn't need anymore. Instead of bracing for failure he needs to just be in a safer system and get that ball out quicker with better coaching.

    As a top coach u train your players to be great no matter the situation. U tech them techniques that force them to be great even when they want to suxs. I see serious problems with our scheme and QB position issues.
     
  13. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Dude, just put him on ignore. You're just feeding him.
     
  14. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I just figured out how, and just did. I didn't even know there was an ignore feature
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Brees is good at dodging sacks and getting rid of the ball. That was one of the things I really liked about him when most Chargers fans hated on him after the 2003 season when he had a horrible line in front of him.

    That being said, I wouldn't say our line was better than New Orleans'.
     
  16. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Well the Chargers do not give the Tackles on either side much help typically. This was highlighted and commented on in several games last season, namely the one against the Colts, where the line was able to handle Freeny and the other end well enough.

    They tend to try and leave one person in the backfield to try and chip a rusher, but that does not always work if there are 2-3 defenders in the backfield.

    Part of the problem is with the long pass, a QB has to hang on to the ball longer. This gives teams a chance to blitz and get to Rivers. That said I dont know of any games we lost because of a sack.

    I would like to see a few more short, or LOS passes to beat the blitz and make the D a little more honest in certain situations. But give we had a top flight O last season, even with the sacks, I am not all too worried, except for the fact that I never like to see our QB go down...
     
  17. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Well not to have a stick stuck in my boo-hoo or anything, but yeah, you kinda did... At least you left the question open.

    Ignore is your friend...
     
  18. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    That doesn't explain why 25 of the 38 sacks came in less than 3 seconds. The 13 after 3 seconds can be blamed on Rivers holding the ball too long, but in less than 3 seconds, that is 100% on the line
     
  19. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    That is a bold statement, you been world champ too? :lol: j/k If a corner back blitzes formt the LOS. you put that on the line? I dont know if I would say that. Can the line be improved, sure. Even the best lines in the league give up sacks.

    I prefer to see this as part of the chess match that has me such a big fan of the game. You attack the Chargers O, buy attacking Rivers. The WRs are big and fast and will out jump most CBs. So you set up schemes to cause mismatches at the LOS. If that equates to "100% on the line" to you, ok. I just dont see it in such black and white clarity as you...
     
  20. 1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp

    1 COOL GUY 13x world Chmp Jesus gives wisdom if you pray for it! Banned

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    Good points con. Exactly the line should not be faulted for LB's and CB blitzing and not being picked up by a failed scheme or lack of big enough RB's willing to commit to blocking. Sproles the smallest RB in the NFL trying to block?
     
  21. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    You are right, 100% is not accurate, but CB blitzes don't account for 25 sacks either. Maybe one or 2, but not 25
     
  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    That is just one scenario. Overloading the line, ala what the Ravens do is another. I did not recall seeing a lot of sacks where I was like "F'in line blew it!".

    I saw a few that the RB missed the blitz pickup. But it is a chess match as I said. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

    On the list of most sacked QBs, were the 'passers' like Manning and Brady up there?
     
  23. hopkinsway

    hopkinsway BoltTalker

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    Maybe because the bolts played from behind, trying to recover from poor performing special teams?
     
  24. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    And we lost that match more than nearly every other team in the league which is why Rivers was sacked the 3rd most times.

    As for Manning and Brady, neither of them were in the top 10. Brady was 20th most and Manning was 31st.
     
  25. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    How many of those 25 included broken plays???
     
  26. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    How many broken plays happen within 3 seconds? Can't imagine very many
     
  27. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I do believe if a play is taking longer than 3 seconds then something is going wrong and in scramble mode running for their life.
     
  28. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Meaning broken play. Which is why the person who broke down those numbers use 3 seconds as the standard between QB's fault and OL's fault. Of course it isn't black and white where every play is ones fault. As Conc pointed out, it could have been the RB or TE missing the block, or it could be a the play to more than 3 seconds to develop because it was a play 30+ yards down field.

    But as a general standard, 3 seconds was used because most plays develop within 3 seconds, so if the QB holds onto the ball after 3 seconds, there is a good chance that he held onto it too long where if he gets sacked before 3 seconds, there is a good chance it is because the line didn't hold their blocks
     
  29. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Most plays are completed in 3 seconds as far as where the ball is going, after 3 seconds they're on borrowed time.
     
  30. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Reading through I would have said early that the #s pointed to the line. But with remembering how the season went down especially early on before we started leaning heavily on Tolbert even over a still recovering 1st round pick. I can see the 3 second time being thrown out if you consider how a Offense performs when the Run and Pass are working together vs just rushing to try to set up passes. Our opponents from prob week 5 on had our # on what to do vs our O. AMAZING somehow even with a pass first/run when possible attack we managed a 1st ranking leauge wide...

    Why 1CG do we need a QB that can run faster than what we already have?

    I would also like to reiterate what was said by at least one savvy poster, I hate everytime that PR goes down. *can we fix the PR prob: I can say VJ and AJ or PM TB all day but no PR??*
     

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