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REGION: Chargers or Raiders? A potentially dangerous decision

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Johnny Lightning, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    Teams' gear increasingly seen as statement of gang allegiance

    The San Diego Chargers kick off their season next month, but you won't see many people sporting the football team's gear in some parts of San Marcos.

    The reason isn't fan apathy. It's fear.

    Known gang members in San Marcos who are caught wearing Chargers or Padres gear face arrest under last November's anti-gang injunction that prohibits them from wearing the apparel.

    And citizens in some parts of the inland North County city say they fear being targeted by gang violence just because of what they're wearing.

    "I wish I could wear whatever I wanted to wear without having to worry about getting rolled on (by gang members)," said John, a 19-year-old who requested his last name not be used because he lives among gang members.

    He said he wouldn't even think about wearing a Chargers or Padres jersey or hat in his neighborhood, which is controlled by the South Los gang, which dresses in Raiders and Dodgers gear.

    "I don't want to get shot, jumped or anything," the young man said, explaining why he and his friends, who aren't in either gang, refrain from wearing the teams' gear.

    Ban a policing tool

    The nature of the problem necessitated the unusual ban on Chargers and Padres gear for the 93 Varrio San Marcos gang members listed in last November's updated gang injunction, said Shawnalyse Ochoa, deputy district attorney in charge of gang injunctions.

    Of the 10 other gang injunctions issued in North County since 1998, only one, against the Diablos gang in Escondido, includes a prohibition from wearing a specific team's gear. In their case, it's the Detroit Tigers. The gang used to wear the team's gear to identify themselves with the team's "D" insignia, she said, as in, D is for Diablos.

    In a previous injunction against Varrio San Marcos filed in 1998, there was no prohibition against team gear.

    But in the updated injunction, Ochoa said, gang detectives in San Marcos pushed for the new ban and offered dozens of photos of documented gang members wearing the jerseys while engaged in gang activities.

    Wrong jersey, wrong place

    "It's a shame that legitimate fans cannot wear certain gear in certain places because the likelihood of getting assaulted is quite high," said Detective Ricardo Lopez of the North County Regional Gang Task Force.

    In the most serious incident to date in San Marcos, two young men not associated with any gang were walking in the 400 block of Autumn Drive a year ago, Lopez said.

    A carful of young men associated with the South Los gang fired multiple gunshots at them before chasing them down, beating them and stabbing them, he said. One victim suffered eight stab wounds while the other was stabbed four times.

    When questioned, the South Los gang members said they didn't know the victims, but stopped and carried out the beating after they saw that one was wearing a LaDainian Tomlinson Chargers jersey on a street that South Los claimed as its territory, Lopez said. The gangsters' car, he said, sported a Los Angeles Dodgers sticker.

    In San Marcos, one gang, Varrio San Marcos, exclusively wears Padres and Chargers gear, Lopez said. The other, South Los, wears exclusively Dodgers and Raiders gear.

    One resident of a South Los neighborhood said that while it's risky to wear the wrong team's jersey in the wrong neighborhood at any time, the risk of trouble is far higher at night and for people who fit the typical gangster profile: young Latino men with shaved heads.

    "If you're bald and you're wearing Chargers gear (in this neighborhood), you've got problems," said Francisco Hernandez, 32. He's not affiliated with either gang, though his nephew is in South Los, he said.

    Teams reflect roots

    Gangsters in the region wearing Chargers and Padres apparel as a way to identify their home turf is nothing new.

    "It's nonverbal communication," Ochoa said. "By wearing a shirt, they don't have to throw hand signs (identifying their gang), but it's exactly the same thing."

    The team preferences in San Marcos reflect the different origins of the two gangs, Lopez said, and have nothing to do with the actual teams, their players or their performance.

    A spokesman with the Padres declined comment on this story, and the Chargers failed to respond to repeated phone calls and e-mails.

    National Football League spokesman Greg Aiello said the league doesn't get involved in such issues, saying it was a law enforcement matter.

    Varrio San Marcos has long claimed the area as its home turf and is composed of young men whose families have deep roots in San Marcos, Lopez said. Thus, they associate themselves with San Diego teams, he said.

    South Los' roots are in Los Angeles, he said. The gang formed in the late 1980s when a mother moved her four sons to the Richmar area of San Marcos in an effort to take them away from the gang environment of South Los Angeles, he said.

    Ironically, the four brothers then started the chapter of South Los in San Marcos, though the gang now has only a loose connection with the Los Angeles group. But they still claim Los Angeles teams to distinguish themselves from their main rival, he said.

    Sports and gangs

    Street gangs nationwide have for decades worn professional sports apparel, Ochoa said. But until recently, no teams had been implicated for cooperating with gangs. Recently, the possible connection has drawn increased scrutiny.

    In March, a district attorney in Brooklyn, N.Y., wrote a letter to Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig in response to New York Yankees hats being issued with the colors and logos of popular street gangs.

    "Sports merchandise, already popular among gang members, is now being marketed directly ---- and intentionally ---- toward them and encourages their dangerous, illegal behavior," district attorney Charles Hynes wrote in the letter.

    Similar allegations have never been made against either the San Diego or Los Angeles team. But recent actions by the National Football League have shown increased sensitivity to gang associations by its players.

    In mid-July, the league announced that it had increased gang-awareness education efforts for players, according to media reports.

    In nearby San Bernardino County, about 90 percent of gangs have associated themselves with the Oakland Raiders, largely because they used to play in nearby Los Angeles and because of their silver-and-black colors and renegade image, said Douglas Poston, San Bernardino County Deputy District Attorney.

    "They're surely not associating themselves with the Raiders because of their record," he joked.

    Contact staff writer Dan Simmons at (760) 740-5426 or dsimmons@nctimes.com.
     
  2. maestro876

    maestro876 BoltTalker

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    And in San Diego County no less.

    Man.
     
  3. TheLash

    TheLash Well-Known Member

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    it's a sad time to be raising a kid:no:
     
  4. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    Never been Leave it to Beaver for most folks. The underbelly is just much more visible now.
     
  5. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    So..... kick all the South Los' out of San Diego. :tup:
     
  6. Osmekaman

    Osmekaman BoltTalker

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    :icon_rofl:

    I know it's a serious article...........but what a line to end on!
     
  7. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    Put a smile on my face
     
  8. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    Ghetto *** gangbangers are some of the dumbest people alive.

    "Oh noes, that dude's wearing red! Let's shoot him!"

    Weak. I wish they would all die in a horrible chemical fire.
     
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  9. sickswonnyne

    sickswonnyne Well-Known Member

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    U also notice how popular Cinncinnati Reds gear is. And that has nothing to do with the team too. Over here in East County a few years ago u couldn't sport a Duke Blue Devil hat without being a gangbanger either. All this stuff isn't new, remember the White Sox and NWA? Retired Catholic is right, it's not new, just more glorified i guess. See how many times Lil Wayne or The Game have Reds' gear in their videos.
     
  10. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    How about you police the gang members' actions and not what people wear?
     
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  11. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    ****, when was the last time the Raiders truly had a renegade image? Maybe back in the 70's and early 80's when they had Ted Hendricks, Lyle Alzado and those types of guys, but who now?

    Their image now is just incompetence and mismanagement.
     
  12. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Getting violent with people because of what they are wearing is so far beyond stupid that I can't think of a word to adequately describe it.
     
  13. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    It definately shows a complete lack of intelligence.

    "That guy's wearing a Padres jersey! Let's shoot him!"

    :freak:
     
  14. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    When you consider the pictures of some of their weird fans along with the reputation of their fans, it's easier to understand
     
  15. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    word

    Y'all needta take back y'alls streets.
     
  16. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    Tooz!!
     
  17. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    If some fool tries to split my wig cuz I'm wearing a bolttalk T I'm coming for Thumpers dome yo.


    On a serious note, gangbangers are the biggest piles of **** on two legs, why they are allowed anywhere near a partially sophisticated society is beyond me. Send them to North Korea, or don't let them leave Oakland, one of the two.
     
  18. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

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    Not to defend the fine City of Oakland but I do think there is a bit of a misconception here and in fact most of the hardcore gang-banging Raiders fans are from LA. In fact many of my friends that are Raiders fans here say they hated going to games in LA because it was so bad.

    And if you must know the Crips and Bloods tried to gain a foothold in Oakland and were escorted out of the city by the local street gangsters. Urban legend? Possibly but there are never Crip/Blood shootings in Oakland and it's mostly just drug turf wars by the local bosses. Not any better but definitely different.
     
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  19. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not crip blood, but who gives a shyt what gang it is, when you have pos gangsters blocking city streets of traffic to rob and jump people, that's much worse than the presence of any known gang. Oakland is a pit from what I have seen of it, no offense to your home, I'm sure you live in the nice part, but google the gang vid's from oaktown and I am sure you will agree it's no better than anywhere in the country.
     
  20. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    are you serious? i thought i was like the only person out here with a duke hat, f*&^ do i need to ditch my duke gear?? :no:
     
  21. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    The dumbest people are those who glorify that life style!!!
    I'm really sick of seeing kids (black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc.) in gang attire, acting, and talking like they had a rough upbringing in the hood. When they were actually born in the suburbs and raised in a good family. They wouldn't know a ghetto if they fell in one!!!

    Some kids were born into the gang life and that's all they know. That's all they see on a day to day basis. They do what they need to do to survive as opposed listening to gangsta rap and dressing like it.

    I'm really hoping that rap and hip hop will kill itself soon like Disco in the 80's!!!!
     
  22. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    This I agree with but I think the police need to make sure that all people in that community are well aware of the potential danger of wearing Chargers and Padres colors in these areas.

    If the police see a kid in these areas wearing Chargers or Padres colors... they should escort him out of that area and tell him he is not to be seen there again in those colors. If the kid ignores their orders and goes back, the police should be allowed to confiscate the jersey and/or hat.

    It sucks that it has to be this way, but maybe eventually things will get under control and it will not longer be an issue.
     
  23. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    If you're born in an area where every kid you know has that mind set, every adult you know has that mind set, maybe even your father has that mind set... it's not exactly hard to get sucked into.
    Especially when the area you live in and the surrounding gang territories are the only places in the world that you know of and growing up to be respected on the streets is the only option you see in the future.

    Like I said "the real stupid people are those that think the life style is cool and think they're part of it because they know the lyrics to hip hop songs, wear the clothes, and talk with the dialect."
    Hollywood needs to stop glorifying this crap. It should have ended with the 90's!!!
     
  24. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Very true. I was living in Philadelphia when NWA was in their hey days and I remember seeing more White Sox and Raiders attire on the streets than Phillies and Eagles.
     
  25. tboltzcali

    tboltzcali Well-Known Member

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    thats too much to ask for. not gunna happen
     
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  26. Thumper

    Thumper WHS

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    "I agree with you -- in theory. In theory, communism works. In theory." Homer Simpson
     
  27. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    Legalities aside, the logistics of emptying neighborhoods of gangs is a bit out of scale with the abilities of police departments. Undoing the social fabric is seldom a workable solution. So far, injunctions have been the most effective tactic. From the Dead Rabbits and the Tongs, to Capone and Luciano, to the Crips and Bloods to MS 13 and others, the large scale criminal merely morphs into other forms. Social peace comes at a price most Americans are unwilling to pay, and the price does NOT involve giving up the law or the Constitution.
     
  28. TheBeast

    TheBeast BoltTalker

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    This is ridiculous. stupid raide...i mean gangbangers. In reality this is out control, it's cool to have a rivalry but when you mix gangs into it, it ruins the fun. you don't yankee/red sox fans yelling "hey he's wearing red/blue lets shoot him". gangbangers are adisgrace period
     
  29. Oakland Charger

    Oakland Charger BoltTalker

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    Look I can't even believe our Chargers board went here but I totally agreed with you until you brought hip hop into the conversation. That is the most ignorant and easiest excuse to put blame on the whole gang bang problem. Last time I checked there were gangs of all colors and styles not just the ones influenced in hip hop songs. You don't have to like the type of music but to bash it and basically state that solely the hip hop industry is responsible for the violence just outright disappoints me. It's true that many people are born into it but are we going to categorize the others as hip hop heads. "Well it must be the rap music." I had the impression that there were intelligent people on these boards . Hip hop is an art form, its a way of expression. Not all of hip hop is about a drive-by or shooting someone. Unfortunately SOCIETY has drawn to that aspect of hip hop and purchase more of those records. If any of you actually went out on a limb and tried real hip hop and not some CCR or blue grass or whatever most of the middle aged people on this board listen to I think you would be honestly surprised at how moving a REAL hip hop album can be written....one love
     
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  30. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Bolts4Life didn't say that hip hop was responsible, you made that leap. He just said he hoped it would fade away. I think he was just expressing his distaste for the genre.

    Your saying that all middle aged people listen to CCR or bluegrass is pretty stereotypical as well. I am 44, and I don't listen to CCR or bluegrass. I don't like hip hop music, it just isn't my thing. I also don't like country. I don't really hope that either of them go away, because I don't give a ****, and I don't listen to them.
     

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