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Ricky Williams - No Reinstatement

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Shamrock, May 11, 2007.

  1. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Come on. Like all great heroes of literature, Ulysses was a selfish bastard. What's not to get? :lol:
     
  2. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Here's the problem with your premise. In a free society, you need a reason to criminalize things, not a reason to legalize them. I shouldn't have to recite the merits of marijuana for it to be legal.

    Give me a single, compelling reason why marijuana should be illegal. If you can't provide one, then that's the greatest reason it should be legal in a free society.
     
  3. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    I haven't smoked weed since I was 15, but I am a big believer in people being allowed to do what they want, so long as it doesn't hurt other people.
     
  4. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    Oregon Toxicologist Says Treatment for PTSD Should Include Cannabis

    Dr. Philip Leveque

    Salem-News.com

    Phillip Leveque, a former WWII combat infantryman, physician and toxicologist, discusses the merits of marijuana use for those who suffer from PTSD.

    (MOLLALA, Ore.) - For those who do not know it, the humans and all animals so far tested produce two marijuana like substances, Anandamide and 2- Arachidonal glycerol (2AG), which produce exactly the same medical functions as marijuana.

    Courtesy: deanza.edu

    Secondly marijuana/cannabis has been used in human medicine for about 4,000 years and have never killed anybody, which cannot be said for almost any other medicine.

    Thirdly, between 1850 and 1900 cannabis medicine was the most prescribed and most used medicine for about 100 different diseases in the U.S.

    Fourthly, in 1988 after hearing 15 days of testimony, pro and con, DEA Administrative Judge Francis L. Young made the following ruling, “Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. Marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume.” Three DEA Administrators, all non-physicians, refused to comply and have deprived millions of desperately ill patients’ effective relief.

    Authors Note: Many newspapers and magazines are currently publishing articles about PTSD – what is it and what to do about it. Most reporters AND psychiatrists don’t have a clue. One heavy artillery or mortar barrage would give them some insight.

    In World War I, it was called “Shell Shock”. As a frontline Combat Infantryman, pointman, scout and forward observer, I know what an artillery or mortar barrage is like – it scares the bejesus out of the soldier. In a long barrage, I can see the soldier going psychotic – frozen in space and time and not being able to speak or move, even if some battalion officer visiting the front would order him to do so. It happened a lot.

    Courtesy: epluribusmedia.org

    During World War II, if the soldier was lucky (I’m joking) he would be sent back to an aid station and be given a triple dose of a barbiturate sleeping pill. These were called “blue 88s”. They would knock-out the soldier for at least 24 hours. Then he was often sent back to the front. On the off chance it was an officer, he would be sent way back to a rest area, often with as much booze as he wanted for as long as he wanted.

    Army psychiatrists have had a field day with this. They first called it “homesickness” (what a crock). They also called it “war neurosis”. That doesn’t cover it. Everybody in a war zone has neurosis. It’s how we cope. Battle is super stressful. A recent example is the serial killer at Virginia Tech who killed 32 students.

    The whole student body and faculty had a neurosis. Many will suffer from PTSD.

    For a soldier who may be almost constantly under fire with the knowledge that a whole bunch of enemy are trying to kill him and he is so tired and stressed out, does anyone, including psychiatrists, believe the soldier can carry on indefinitely?

    Battle fatigue, terror fatigue, combat stress or PTSD seems to slightly cover the situation.

    One of the symptoms is the belief that one cannot survive. This is NOT fear or paranoia. With horrible death and destruction all around, how can a soldier NOT know he won’t survive? But still, he carries on.

    Courtesy: d21c.com

    During World War II, in North Africa, the “nervous breakdown” ratio (another name for the same) was 15 to 20% of living casualties. Some other casualties went berserk and charged a machine gun or ran into a minefield. At the Battle of the Bulge, they shot themselves in the foot or let their feet freeze. No toes on a foot was better than a shot in the head.

    The Vietnam soldier discovered an effective treatment for PTSD. They discovered it while in Vietnam. It was high-grade Marijuana and sometimes opium or a combination of both.

    It isn’t even known how high a percentage of frontline “grunts”, as they were called, used the above, but it was a lot. They also had access to all the beer or booze they could get their hands on.

    This was certainly no different than the “blue 88s” of WWII, and better in the long run.

    The Vietnam Administration Clinics have tried every anti-psychotic and anti-depressant in the book as well as highly potent pain killers like Oxycontin and M.S. contin (morphine) with minimal success for PTSD. They did end up with thousands of drug addicts and alcoholics.

    I had about 500 Vietnam vet patients. Many had PTSD which was not acceptable for an Oregon Medical Marijuana permit. Most did have some physical injury for which I could give them a permit.

    Will vets please write in their experiences?

    Email your story to: Tell Dr. Leveque

    Note: This is modified from the article: “Battle Fatigue: What’s wrong with these sissies?” from the author’s book “General Patton’s Dogface Soldier” by Phil Leveque.

    http://www.winonadailynews.com/artic...urview0508.txt
     
  5. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    There isn't a single logical or scientific reason for not making spleef legal. It's medical benefits have been fairly well demonstrated, but some researchers are only beginning to discover it's medical uses that go beyond the current chemo and aids relief. The Dutch and the Swiss have actually established clean safe heroin houses for addicts, and crime, disease and durg addiction in the general public have declined, more people are seeking treatment for their addiction and fewer women are turning to prostitution to feed their habits. Now they just do it for money. Much more civilized.

    Someone really needs to figure out what the feds and the states could draw off in revenue if weed was regulated and taxed like alcohol. Marijuana and cocaine's illegal profits are now funding terrorists world wide and the Taleban in Afghanistan. The British are itching to buy Afghan opium because they have a shortage of opiate pain killers, which have become seriously expensive. The "War on Drugs" has become an entrenched, profitable special interest that makes tons of money for a priviledged group of "warriors".

    I haven't smoked dope since it was safe to do so on the Mission Beach boardwalk wall. I quit when people began shooting one another over it, but then again, I refuse to shop at Wal Mart, too, for similar ethical reasons. I prefer to buy from the owner/proprietors in Hillcrest and purchase fair trade coffee and farmer's market veggies. Time for another beer.
     
  6. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lvzX8aNwxgM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lvzX8aNwxgM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

    Irv Rosenfeld (ONE of 12 .... opps maybe 5... living Federal Marijuana Patients in the U.S.). He smokes around 30 joints a day and has for over 30 years in the Federal Government medical marijuana program. He is also a successful stockbroker.

    The Federal Government does not want the public to know about this guy and now you need to guess why????

    ......it is obvious.

    Time to re-educate yourselves....or not. :bolt:
     
  7. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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    The State of California Board of Equilization is collecting taxes from medical marijuana dispensaries throughout California although the federal government does not collect taxes.

    However, there are states which have a marijuana tax stamp (Arizona, Minnesota etc etc) where the Federal government indeed collects their taxes. It is a misconception that a tax system is not already in place by in large. Marijuana taxes are being collected as we speak and have been for years.

    The problem becomes one of filing a 1099 with a grower who will not be willing to do so which leaves the quandry.
     
  8. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man New Member

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  9. goboilers

    goboilers BoltTalker

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  10. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    If they were in Canada, then I'd bomb 'em ..... :yes:
     
  11. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :lol:
     
  12. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    This is all true, but in the quantities that are being subjected to taxes the amount of money is peanuts. If the illicit sales were made licit, I would be really curious about the level of revenue, which I suspect would be enormous. The only problem I can forsee is the bootlegging and crop theft. Pricing in a legal market would probably have a mitigating effect on illegal growth domestilcally and would eliminate importation all together. Plantation growing and modern seeding and cleaning techniques would reduce production costs to that of sugar cane. You could sell a single unity for the price of a six pack.
     
  13. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    BTW, Happy Mother's Day, Darlin!! :yes: :tup:
     
  14. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    I fixed it for you.

    Happy Mother's Day :bolt: :bolt: :bolt:
     
  15. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    :tup: :tup:
     
  16. Thumper

    Thumper WHS

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    I have no problem with the discussion of the merits of marijuana legalization, but it doesn't belong in the Charger / NFL section. i realize this thread is related as it's topic is Ricky Williams enjoyment of the ganja over his desire to play in the NFL, but no that the thread has become a marijuana discussion, it belongs in the lounge. I you still wish to discuss this, please do it there.

    I'll leave this thread open to discuss Ricky Williams.
     
  17. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    You know that's a lovely and idealistic way to look at the employer/employee relationship, and totally not the way it works in the real world. Thinking back to the lamest minimum wage BS jobs I had as a kid I can still remember having it crammed down my throat that I represent that company whether I'm on the clock or not. My actions outside of work reflect on Staples - The Office Supply Store, and the sort of people they have working for them. I agree that it's dumb and not fair, but that's the way the world of employment works big hommie. And the NFL, as a considerably more highly exposed and lucrative business organization is going to apply this same scrutiny ten fold. I'm not saying it's right, what I'm saying is that it's no small secret and Ricky has chosen to pursue a career where he can expect said scrutiny. I could maybe understand your whole unlawful search and seizure position, but all Ricky has to do is quit his job (something that, generally, happens a few times over the course of the average humans lifespan) and he doesn't have to piss in any more cups. He has continued to choose to subject himself to this scrutiny and that's why he's and idiot. I can totally agree that this $hit is unreasonable from the perspective of an ethical purist. But there is a considerable gap between the way things ought to be and the way they actually are.

    Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Seems to me that describes Ricky's behavior to a T.

    I don't mean to come across as totally lacking compassion, but I have a very difficult time accepting that marijuana is the only solution to whatever psychology malady affects Ricky. But again, more importantly, he knows you can't fail a piss test and work for the NFL, yet he continues to fail piss tests and expect to work for the NFL. I don't expect any employer to change the rules for me, why should anyone else expect otherwise?

    EDIT: BTW are you suggesting that, considering your interpretation of illegal search and seizure, that any form of employment drug testing should be outlawed?
     
  18. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    When discussing ideals, one should be idealistic. You could call the Constitution idealistic. I'm not talking about the way it does work. I'm talking about the way it should work. If you want to lounge on your couch and just shrug your shoulders as more and more of your personal privacy and freedom is being taken from you, then go ahead. But don't call it being practical, because that's bullshit.

    You want to make this about judging Ricky Williams, which is fine. But that's not what I'm talking about. Your discussing what chemical compounds Ricky should use to treat his psychosocial disorder, and my position is that it's none of your damn business, so long as Ricky isn't putting other people's lives at risk with his actions.

    I'm not an absolutist. There should be exceptions to the "no drug tests by employers" rule. I don't have a problem with airline pilots being drug tested, because they are taking hundreds of other peoples' lives in their hands when they go to work. And I don't have a problem with athletes being tested for performance enhancing drugs, because those drugs have a profound impact on their colleagues' ability to make a living. Perfomance enhancing drugs are really a work safety issue, anyway. Steroids aren't banned just becuase they are performance enhancing. They are banned because they are performance enhancing AND harmful to your health.
     
  19. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    That's one of Trumpies cows.

    Here's a pic of a Shammy cow .......

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Drug test lawyers !!!
     
  21. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    Maybe that's the problem here... you're talking about ideals and I'm talking about a contract the man signed that said that if he is caught smoking pot he loses his job.

    Nice cop out. So your position is that there should not have been a news story and this discussion shouldn't be happening? :icon_huh:

    Now that is totally reasonable. I'm not trying to suggest that profit margins are on par with human life, but considering the real life dolars and cents that the NFL (and all the other major sports) stands to lose based purely on its image and perception gives them the right to implement a relatively thorough and invasive off-field conduct policy. As a business they have the right to defend their their brand. I don't see how this is a slippery slope to the erosion of civil liberties.

    Of course I'm judging Ricky, isn't that what everyone in this thread is doing to some extent? You wanna talk right to privacy vs. right of a business to defend it's image take it to the politics thread.
     
  22. LT teh ghost

    LT teh ghost Well-Known Member

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    I hope this is the end of ricky, i am sick of hearing about him.
     
  23. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    Most people are:yes: :yes:
     
  24. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    It's not a cop out to say that Ricky shouldn't be judged for using one chemical compound to treat his illness instead of another.

    What I'm saying is directly related to Ricky's situation. As far as the NFL protecting their brand, I doubt that many people are going to stop being customers of the NFL because a few players smoke the sticky-icky. I think the NFL is completely out of touch in this regard.
     
  25. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    I have no problem with pot or people smoking it. To me it's no different than people who drink a few beers or a couple martinis at lunch except there's a stigma attached to it, and because of that stigma it's illegal. Like alcohol I have no problem with people who use pot in moderation.

    But just like there are alcoholics whose love for booze kills their ability to be responsible adults there are people who get carried away by their love of pot. I've known a few of them--guys who can smoke a half-ounce of chronic in a weekend. "Perma-high." People who need to be stoned 24/7 need help, and I think Ricky is one of those people. It makes him unreliable.
     

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