1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Rivers arm

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Scott the Rock, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Scott the Rock

    Scott the Rock BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    795
    Ratings:
    +130
    I keep watching his motion and accuracy. It's obviously off. Is it the options he has? Last time I checked he's got a lot of options. Is it the play calling? Could be. Is he hurt? I have to say it looks like he's throwing the ball with no zip. Floating balls and ducky passes. Maybe Rivers isn't to locked into the Norv offense anymore. The team has had injuries and blah blah blah... something is just not right with our main man. Guys are making costing mistakes but his are becoming insurmountable. And this sucks for me because I'm a big Rivers fan. The schedule only gets tougher. We will see what kind of heart the team has as whole in the next game. I guess you could say that a lot of the picks have come from tipped passes and how many times will that happen? Who knows? Lots of questions with zero answers. That's basically what this Charger team is, a big question. I see a lot of bright sides but......
     
  2. Vardog

    Vardog BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Ratings:
    +1
    Didn't a hit during the Patriots game bruise his sternum? Maybe there's more to it than that? All I know is I agree with you that it seems like there's "no zip" on the ball and wounded ducks and floaters from time to time.
     
  3. NORV4LIFE

    NORV4LIFE NO MORE NORV!!!!!

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,453
    Ratings:
    +58
    yeah he doesn't seem the same mentally or physically. Maybe the lockout was really bad for him as a qb?
     
  4. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +542
    The Chargers are hiding his injury. With that said, they should revert to playcalling that doesn't take so long to develop.
    Let Rivers get his completion percentage up, this should help his confidence so that he can put the injury out of his mind
    during the game.
    Where's the proof of his injury you say? You watched the game..and the game before that...walks like a duck, throws ducks..'nuff said.
     
  5. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,705
    Ratings:
    +2,160
    I don't intend this as a wise-*** comment...really...but Philip's motion looks
    bizarre in the best of times. Sometimes, in the past, I've seen him release the
    ball, and been reminded of a shot putter! But then, as the camera would
    follow the ball, it would turn out to have been perfectly placed.
    This season the delivery is still weird, but few of his throws are perfectly on target.
    I have no idea why...and it doesn't seem that he does, either.
     
  6. scratchnz

    scratchnz BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,077
    Ratings:
    +91
    I looked into River's eyes at times during that game and my inital gut feeling was...there is definately something going on behind the scenes. I have never seen him look so lost! I know hes watching the game slipping away but his team is still on a winning record. He should look angry...not sad.
     
  7. Bergo23

    Bergo23 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    263
    Ratings:
    +22
    Rivers will never be mistaken for Elway, or the guy he is oft compared to Marino. He most resembles Kosar in terms of arm strength, average at best. I remember thinking that the last couple of years, but when he produced, nobody sees the average arm strength.
     
  8. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,302
    Ratings:
    +4,413
    Bench McNeill........ he's :poop:

    #imjustsaying ;)
     
  9. Holy_Bolt

    Holy_Bolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,195
    Ratings:
    +362
    I tend to agree with your comments. I think Rivers is really bad once he leaves the pocket...which he is doing a lot. He seems to me (no data to support this) to be making more throws off his front leg...almost in a panic. When he leaves the pocket he has little composure and I would love to know stats for out of the pocket versus in the pocket. I remember happy feet Rivers a few years ago, that QB appears to have returned.
     
  10. Vardog

    Vardog BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Ratings:
    +1
    I didn't state an injury, I asked a question. Either Jaws or Chucky said something about a bruised sternum during the game last night pertaining to the hit Rivers took during the Pats game.
     
  11. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +542
    1. I wasn't replying to your post
    2. I did state an injury
    3. I heard what Jaws or Chucky said 2nd hand, and they're likely correct. I watched the game on ESPN Deportes. Less BS that way..and the commentators are Charger biased with S.D. being so close to Mex...
    4. Go Bolts!
     
  12. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Ratings:
    +378
    Funny that there's problems about he's arm strength. Weren't we known as one of the best deep ball/vertical teams in league prior to this year?
     
  13. Holy_Bolt

    Holy_Bolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,195
    Ratings:
    +362
    Yep your are right...so why the change this year? To me he looks uncomfortable in the pocket. I think he sucks when he leaves the pocket. We need a real good Qb coach to manage PR ( he has the whole team on his shoulders) okay...here I go again...a management gap!
     
  14. 65TossPowerTrap

    65TossPowerTrap BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    649
    Ratings:
    +37
    Well, I'll say this, from KC's perspective, coming off the week before the Chargers - Chiefs game, Rivers looks like Aaron Rodgers...but of course, we got used to picking off ducks from Kyle Boller and Carson Palmer so I guess that's not saying much.
     
  15. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    What needs to happen is to draft/trade for a true stud of a LOT & see if McNeill can transition to the right side. Not sure if he'd work there as I don't see him as a very good drive blocker, but he should be able to handle most of the guys on that side.

    If the neck problems continue, we could be looking at an even greater need to replace him.

    However, calling him :poop: is a bit overblown, IMO. Tell Shamrock to come voice that opinion himself. ;)
     
  16. 65TossPowerTrap

    65TossPowerTrap BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    649
    Ratings:
    +37
    Tamba Hali has embarrassed every tackle he has faced this year. I don't know how McNeil has faired against others like you all surely do though.
     
  17. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,302
    Ratings:
    +4,413
    Who's this "Shamrock" you refer to?.......... I haven't been back to .com since I vacated the place.

    Regarding McNeill, I was making a point. People are suggesting that we sit Rivers and start Volek based on his shaky play. You can't play worse than McNeill did, but no one has suggested he be benched, so I did. Fair? ;)
     
  18. eoconnor101

    eoconnor101 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    Ratings:
    +35
    Mmmm....I think that comparing River's to Kosar is ludicrous.

    1) He's hurt, don't know if it's sternum or ribs or what but I've seen him grimace as he tries to inhale after multiple knock downs, also his throwing motion is abbreviated (more than usual)...he doesn't have his full range of motion to pivot around his spine and then pivot back. What you get from that is compensation from using too much arm which results in a varying release point. The result of that is passes behind receivers, tipped passes, overthrown passes, and yes, floating ducks. You don't spend your whole life knowing how to throw a football and then just forget overnight.

    2) Rivers is not crap when he leaves the pocket, he has to do it a lot because our line breaks down and Norv calls a lot of plays that take a long time to develop. Rivers made two spectacular drive saving throws from the right sideline after the play completely collapsed and stepping into a hit. What he is is slow, and that's genetic, like being 6'4 or having brown eyes. He does a good job of buying himself time and has never been afraid to take a hit.

    3) Rivers throws too often off his front foot? What foot should you thow off? Your back foot? Hmmmm...you want to throw a ball forward so why would you not release the ball as your weight and momentum shift forward. People who can't throw usually have their weight going back (reverse pivot).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +542
    I'm no expert on throwing a football..but from what I've been told...ideally you want to step forward slightly with your front foot...using the back foot like a "plant" foot comparative to how a kicker would kick. Basically, step into a throw for the long ball...and not so much on a shorter throw. You really never want to be falling back or moving backwards or even sideways when throwing. No 'across the body' type shite...that happens when moving sideways.
    So I guess to answer the question. You throw using both feet for power and accuracy...the arm mechanics are tied into the leg placement. I think that's right...anybody have anything else?
     
  20. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    Good for you. While this place can have its share of drama from time to time, you can at least speak your mindfreely for the most part.

    Shamrock just always spoke of McNeill as the waist-bender & that he was crap. I'll give him the waist-bender part to a point, but he's still been pretty damn steady since he got here & his mechanics have improved.

    I get your point re: Rivers vs. Volek, McNeill vs. whomever (Dombo, I would imagine). Both are ridiculous opinions if based solely on overall performance, but typical of fans who look no further than the "what have you done for me lately?" viewpoint.
     
  21. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,705
    Ratings:
    +2,160
    " Waist-bender?"
    Is that what the kids are calling it these days? ;)
    Is it a euphemism for "American Idol Contestant" ?

    [Okay, back to the high road, Lance]
     
  22. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    I know you're joking but just in case .... Bending at the waist instead of the knees when blocking.
     
  23. eoconnor101

    eoconnor101 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    Ratings:
    +35
    joem.PNG

    Here's some guy who may or may not have been better than Kosar. As one can see he's obviously already planted his back foot and is bringing his weight off of it. The plant of the back foot serves two purposes...1) It stops the drop and sets the QB up in the pocket, and 2) It loads up energy for the throw forward. This joker above is about to release the ball with most of the weight on his front foot, and in fact will probably follow through with his back foot coming off the ground. What a fool, doesn't he know not to throw off his front foot.
     
  24. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,302
    Ratings:
    +4,413
    I don't see McNeill as a great LT..... not much better than Clary is at RT, honestly. We finally got to see what McNeill looked like without Dielman's help, and it wasn't pretty.

    I've said to Clary's detractors in the past that if you put Dielman on his side, he'd look a lot better...... I stand by that. The lineman work together as a unit, and the quality of the guy at your side makes a big difference. Clary, while not great, has been hurt by having a rotation of less than quality RGs. McNeill, on the other hand, has had the good fortune of playing next to a big nasty Pro Bowl LG. McNeill is a better pass protector than Clary, but Clary is clearly a better run blocker, so it's a wash, in my opinion.

    Lets see how McNeill fares this week against Clay Matthews with Greene again as his partner.
     
  25. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    I've also said more than a few times that some of Clary's issues have been due to shortcomings at RG. Vasquez is requiring less help, particularly in pass protection, & it shows in Clary's performance. But nothing will overcome his lack of foot speed. That is what it is. His technique has drastically improved & his determination has never been an issue.

    Green, IMO, has regressed since last year. Didn't look good in pre-season, hasn't looked good in any relief for Vasquez.

    Your assessment of McNeill is pretty fair - certainly more fair than grading him as :poop:. ;)

    That's the reason that I said, & have said before, that I'd like to see a real stud for us at LOT & try McNeill on the right side. But that would require a change at a higher pay grade than Norv.
     
  26. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,302
    Ratings:
    +4,413
    The :poop: was a one game grade, not the summation of his career. ;)

    The problem, as I see it, is that McNeill isn't a good enough run blocker to improve over Clary at RT. He's also paid too much money to be anything other than LT. Either he's good enough, or he isn't. Depth is an issue, because I don't see anyone growing into a starting spot in this group...... they all looks like career backups, and that's a troubling.
     
  27. eoconnor101

    eoconnor101 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    Ratings:
    +35
    I thought this thread was about River's arm and injury concerns? Not about poo symbols representing jumpy linemen.
     

Share This Page