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Rivers Mechanics

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by TBF, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. TBF

    TBF BoltTalker

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    I mentioned this during the game day thread several times, but I think it needs its own thread.

    Rivers is a NFL quality QB. He is playing very poorly right now and is not consistant. I know he had a ton of yards today, so some may wonder why now. In the game day thread it was pointed out at the half that his QB rating was around 100.

    Here is what I see in Rivers. On most balls thrown out to the left, he is opening his hips wide open, stepping out and left not toward the target and he is not getting good zip, or accuaracy on that ball. On balls to the right, he is doing a better job, but his footwork and mechanics are still poor. Throwing over the middle, he looks good mechanically.

    On the deep route, he is making bad mental mistakes throwing into very good coverage.

    He really appears that his feel for the game has gone to the island of misfit toys. He looks as if he is looking at the rush instead of "feeling" the rush. He isn't stepping up in the pocket with a sense of security, it's more like a reaction.

    I know Rivers has the game. WE all saw it last year. Time and time again, last season he threw the ball where only our guy could catch the ball, he looked sure of himself and strove to improve.

    My hope is that this is a "classic" sophmore slump. That being said, I don't know if I believe in Sophmore slumps...

    It all starts with the head...If he is not sure between the ears, then all else will more then likely fail (mechanics, confidence, ability, etc...)

    Our O really depends on his ability to make plays. If he doesn't make plays they will stuff 8 in the box and force him to beat us. Thus far, teams have found success...

    TBF
     
  2. TBF

    TBF BoltTalker

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    Norval is what made Aikman tick by some accounts. He is a well known QB coach. I know what I am seeing and Rivers isn't "sure" about most of his game. Someone is to blame for the disconnect between Norval and PR, what the fans will never know is who's to blame.

    TBF
     
  3. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Remember when we went no huddle with Drew and the offense would will its way downfield with pinpoint accuracy and confidence :icon_party:
     
  4. TBF

    TBF BoltTalker

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    I actually like that idea...Takes the thinking/over thinking he has going on...Just play and make plays...

    TBF
     
  5. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Phil Simms has always hated Rivers and Steve Young has endorsed Phil Simms' quarterback evaluation abilities. I have heard enough :lol:
     
  6. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    I started a thread with this same title last week. It must have been deleted or merged because I can't find it. I guess they thought it was BS because we won last week.

    I agree because Rivers just sucks this year. He looks injured or somebody is messing with his throwing motion.

    How long of a leash do we keep him on? His press conference will consist of the "every QB goes through this" and "I just have to work through it" BS. He has been saying this crap for weeks.

    The majority of his long passes have been ducks. He rarely can toss a tight pass.
     
  7. Boltzzz

    Boltzzz BoltTalker

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    You are right about Rivers looks at the rush instead of feeling it, he gets flustered so easy its not even funny. He sees the rush coming and he losses it, cant think, cant see the field, and panics. I really hope he does come around, but our O line is partly to blame too. Im pissed right now!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Keeping in touch with that, consider that Alex Smith was a blank slate when he worked with Turner. Ferotte, Fiedler and Brad Johnson, though veterans with their own vibe, none had been successful in the past. Is it possible that Rivers is questioning both what made him successful last year and what Turner is teaching him now, kinda like a computer that's has a new program overlapping and contradicting the original program. What do you get? An error.
     
  9. Alpenbolt

    Alpenbolt BoltTalker

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    Smith's hard drive has appeared to crash. Maybe Norv hit format C on his way out the door.
     
  10. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that Fiedler and Frerotte were better under Norv?

    If you are, let me say that Fiedlers best year was the year before Norv got there and he went downhill from there although his best rating(85 compared to 80 the year before) was Norvs first in Miami. It was 72 the 2nd year under Norv.

    Frerotte never had a rating over 79 till he left Norv.

    Brad Johnson has been pretty mediocre his whole career and won a SB wit Tampa Bay where Norv never coached.

    If you did not mean this, then sorry i went on about it.
     
  11. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I'm just saying they had some success under Norv, maybe the better examples are Smith and Aikman then Frerotte and Fiedler and Johnson
     
  12. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    LOL, well could Smith have possibly been worse than his rookie year ( 1 TD, 11 INT's) :lol:

    This year he has been hurt . Tough to gauge.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve BoltTalker

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    Rivers holds the ball low and with one hand when he is waiting to throw. He is somewhat better when his primary target is to his right. But by not keeping the ball high and tight (tucked in under his chin), he has to wind up to throw. This does 2 things. First, it leaves the ball hanging in the breeze, which means that any DL can just swat the ball away (as evidence by the 10 fumbles Rivers has). When Rivers has the ball high and tight, he has a release almost as quick as Marino. No DB can get a jump on that ball in zone coverage. But when he holds the ball low, he has to wind up and it takes a long time. Not only can the DB see the ball coming easier, but then Rivers footwork and his arm out not working together. Unlike many QB's, Rivers get s lot of his power from his non-throwing arm. He pulls the throwing arm through with his non-throwing arm firing backwards. Last year, when he was on (I am thinking the Steelers game), he was able to fire lasers all over the place. This year, with his timing off, he doesn't appear to have any arm strength. His arm is probably fine, but he has to get the upper body and footwork to match up, or he will be throwing weak passes. Also, the arm thing tends to pull his body around to the left more then it should, which is why a lot of his passes to that side end to go too far left.

    Rivers has the same mechanical problems he has always had. In college it was no big deal because most college teams don't generate a real pass rush, so he had a ton of time and was able to just stand back and throw. The key to last season, especially early, was that we gave him great pass protection, so his mechanical problems where not much of an issue. He also worked very, very hard to try and get rid of it, which initally he did. But like most guys, he didn't really get rid of it, and as the season progressed, he slid back into his old bad habits. His late season slump was due to this.

    This season, due to his poor mechanics, when he rushes things, he never has the ball where he wants it and it goes all over the place, but never where he wants it. This is the consistency problem. He just doesn't have the confidence right now to go in and deliver.

    I can't see Norv as having much to do with Rivers mechanics right now. Ramsdell would do that. He worked extensively with Rivers on his delivery, and initially it was pretty good last season. But as he got hit, and spent most of his practice time getting ready for games, and less and less time working on fundamentals, he got sloppy and the old bad habits surfaced. I think this season has been far worse then expected because Rivers really didn't have that much of an off season. He may really be missing his practice time that he needed to have but didn't get because of his foot injury. In some ways I think this may be similar to big Ben last year in Pitt. He got his usual practice reps, but without the preseason stuff, was just not comfortable.

    There are good things and bad things about Rivers mechanics. First, there is probably no really quick fix to his actual mechanics. Rivers has too many responsibilities to the offense to spend much practice time working on it now. He has to focus on executing plays, not unlearning and relearning how to throw a football. That really has to be done in the offseason.

    The good news is that there are things we can do to minimize his problems. First, treat him like we did last year as a rookie. We started off limiting the # of throws and the things we asked him to do. This was also to protect McNeil starting at LT, but since his play has been down too, that is not a bad thing either.

    The other thing is really just turn the whole offense over to LT. I know we now have the pieces to potentially be a pretty good passing offense with Gates, VJ and Chambers, but without Rivers really being on his game, that is just not going to happen. Keep things simple and safe in the passing game. Protect Rivers first and don't expose him. Script extensive part of the game ahead of time so he knows what to expect and can rehearse a lot before hand.
     
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  14. 17Rocks

    17Rocks Well-Known Member

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    I was at that game and made a few observations:

    Rivers, on more than one occasion, chose to throw into double coverage rather than hit an open receiver. He seems to want to go deep too often when he has an open man with first down yardage.

    He likes to stare down his receiver...quite often.

    the fade to gates in the end zone and the first int were good enough throws, Gates did not attack the ball like he normally does...

    Rivers seems to be blind to linebackers...
     
  15. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Gates stumbled a bit and did not get to his spot on that fade route. There was just a quick glimpse of Gates running and throwing the ball down the tunnel after he missed the catch, then with our superior lip reading skills, we saw him mouth the word "PHUK" on the bench.
     
  16. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    River's throws the ball like he's throwing a live hand grenade


    :tdown::tdown::tdown:
     
  17. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    Great post dude. not sure why no one else gave you props.
     
  18. Kwak

    Kwak ....

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    Just read it. :tup:
     
  19. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    Very well thought out posts one of the top posts I have seen posted here this season. :flag:
     
  20. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    Hey Steve, you don't happen to work in the organization? I went back and read a lot of your posts, and your knowledge and insight leads me to believe you are than an average fan. Like knowing how much River's has been practicing and what and with who...

    but then again, I am easily impressed.
     
  21. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Next time please post your thoughts on Vjina earlier in the post so I can know to stop reading :yes:
     
  22. skawash

    skawash BoltTalker

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    He throws like his hand is to small
    to grip the ball right.
     
  23. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    That was sort of my thoughts as well. :lol:

    Rivers faced Merriman in college so I am not sure where a lack of pass rush is even true where mechanics are affected.

    I have not seen Rivers tuck the ball under his chin as this is not his style nor does he drop his arm for some sort of windy up. He throws a 3/4 sidearm and that throwing motion in and of itself will lead fans to postulate all sorts of things.

    Bernie Kosar had the exact same throwing motion. Many said it would contribute to batted pass and INT's. Bernie Kosar still leads the league for the most completed passes without an INT almost 25 years later. Same throwing motion again as Rivers. Carbon copies.
     
  24. Kwak

    Kwak ....

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    When can we cut that body catching, non-aggressive, never fights for the ball, VJina???

    MORE C Davis!!!
     
  25. skawash

    skawash BoltTalker

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    I was hoping for tomorrow. and then t.c on wed.
     
  26. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Yes and I am wondernig why Morty said "this kid reminds me of Bernie Kosar" as if that was a good thing??? Kosar was a great college QB... Rivers was a great college QB. Kosar made the pro bowl in his third year in the league and that was it... Phil made the pro bowl in his third year in the league and that will be it :yes: After that his career went down the crapper. Rivers is a GAME MANAGER and not a playmaker. My view of a playmaking QB is one that will either #1 evade the rush to buy time for his receivers and be able to throw on the run #2 willingness to take a hit if it means buying receiver extra time coupled with ability to get the ball where it needs to be in such scenarios #3 accurate long bomb #4 ability to fit the ball into tight spots #5 ability to confuse defense by looking off. Rivers has demonstrated a lil bit of 4 but nothing else. The bottom line is that Rivers is not a gunslinger... his game is field vision and accuracy and when neither is clicking he has no other tools to utilize and his game will be ****.
     
  27. JUGGERNAUT

    JUGGERNAUT BoltTalker

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    i hate jackson. more legadu. or anyone. bring back greg camarillo.
     

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