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Run Problem not O-line?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Zeus, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    People are saying that "eight man in the box" we have beaten it before. It must be the run down the middle easy to see Norv Turner's offense. An offense that worked so well last season using similar plays.

    One then must wonder how this eight man in the box is stopping LJ, Jackson, Gore hell almost every RB in the league. Now is it because every O-line is struggling? Have all these RBs suddenly lost their step?

    The answer might surprise you.

    Yes we did beat 8 in the box and we did have a lot of success running last year. However something has changed and its not our offense.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d802b2b0b&template=with-video&confirm=true

    This article talks about the change.

    Here are some excerpts:

    The Packers succeeded in shutting down Tomlinson, who finished with 62 yards, by blitzing on early downs and keeping their safeties near the line. They went so far as to leave only one linebacker on tight end Antonio Gates, who had 11 receptions but ultimately couldn't make up for Tomlinson's limited impact.

    "It's different now … because people are stacking nine, 10, maybe 11 guys," Johnson told reporters in Kansas City. "That's what we're going to have to face until we prove that we can throw the ball up the field. Defenses are looking at us like they'll give up the 10- to 15-yard pass routes. They'd rather give up that than the 20-, 30-yard runs that we can get.


    These "new" technique isn't just effecting the Chargers Many teams that rely on the run have been hurt by it. Those that have run successfully have opened up the pass and frankly have not faced this time of defense yet.

    So blame the O-line, blame LT, blame the coaching however this is a NEW and very risky defense. Norv Turner has to throw out the old playbook on this and create some new strategies for this new defense.

    Ya we can beat 8 men in the box but when you have everyone and the kitchen sink your forced to throw. Norv Turner opened it up against Greenbay. Rivers and our receivers missed some key throws and catches. We couldn't dictate the game because our crappy defense and an inability to beat 10 in the box.
     
  2. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    So what would be hte response that we used to beat 8-9 in hte box last year?

    The only time I do really remember a team stacking us was Seattle (and we still ran because we went into max blocking packages) and Denver at home (where we opened the game with like 7 passes and Rivers disected the Broncos).

    I do agree that the majority of people in the box is having a bad effect on us but by the same token Rivers is only now (I think) getting back into a groove and our Run Blocking has not been nearly as good as last years
     
  3. Chavez

    Chavez Well-Known Member

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    I've heard LT say that as long as he knows who the unblocked player is coming in he can make him miss. So, either LT is not correctly making that recognition or the OLine is not making their blocks.
     
  4. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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  5. Thread_Killer

    Thread_Killer Well-Known Member

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    We're also missing those reverses and fake-reverses that everybody used to complain about (including me). That stuff goes a long way towards stopping everybody from flowing to the ball.

    Another reason we need Parker back.
     
  6. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    They tried running a reverse to Buster Davis in the Green Bay game, but a rusher came past the OL and blew it up for a big loss.
     
  7. twilight15

    twilight15 BoltTalker

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    He really hasn't had anypne miss him yet.....I still have faith in him, but he needs to pick up the step
     
  8. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    I think I remember more than one guy in position to blow that play up. It was a regular traffic jam. LT is facing more than one unblocked player. Spread the field, go to the quick throw. How hard would it be to tape the first ten plays to Rivers' wrist and have him run the no huddle like New England did? The Chargers coaches are not adapting. If teams are going to stack us like that, then there are a couple of ways to exact the price for foolishness. I suspect I am sussing the nature of Norval's flaw as a coach. He's insecure as an individual, unwilling to trust his players enough to fully exploit the play book.
     
  9. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone say 2005? Teams were doing the exact same thing to Brees and LT that year (remember the Broncos games?).
     
  10. OverVolt

    OverVolt BoltTalker

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    Yep, this is where Gates and the RB's must be held in to block, so it's on our WR's to breakdown the one-on-one coverage so Rivers can get them the ball...until this gets done, this type defense cannot be beat.
    This is one reason the Pat's and Indy are so hard to beat...their WR's always win in man coverage. Brady and Manning hit their first option without a second thought.
    It also the reason our O started looking better against GB...did you notice how many passes the WR's caught? If our WR's can start to win their matchups, then all DB's will have to think coverage first and run second...that leaves seven up in the box, and in most cases, the DB's first step will be backwards.
     
  11. Showmeyourbolt

    Showmeyourbolt Well-Known Member

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    Green Bay did shoot the gabs very agressively with their linebackers, but even when they didn't, we had a tough time moving their defensive line.
     
  12. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they could have numbered say, 20 plays on Rivers' wristband and ordered them such that Norv could have told him "just run numbers 1 to 10 in that order, unless I signal differently from the sideline." :yes:
     
  13. Daddy_O

    Daddy_O Well-Known Member

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    :abq2:Wonder Slug for HC.:abq2:

    If it were only that simple.
     
  14. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Coaching the Chargers! So easy, even a Slug can do it!:tup:
     
  15. Daddy_O

    Daddy_O Well-Known Member

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    As long as he stays hydrated and stays away from the salt. :icon_tease:
     
  16. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Yeah, but most natural turf stadiums will ban him...:icon_eek:
     
  17. Daddy_O

    Daddy_O Well-Known Member

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    Nah. They let that worm Billychick in. :lol:
     
  18. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Boy, it's amazing how fast a thread can deteriorate into nonsense here!! :lol:

    We have to open things up downfield, plain & simple. If there's a legitimate threat to defenses that they can get burnt long, they'll have to respect that & move back into coverage. Football 101.

    We also need to get the ball to LT out in space more. I didn't really get to watch much of the GB game, but didn't he score on a screen? As long as we only run up the middle, defenses will stack the line.

    I'm still waiting to see all of this offensive innovation from the guru who originally implemented this system. :icon_shrug:
     
  19. OverVolt

    OverVolt BoltTalker

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    Man ain't that the truth...this forum is the worst for this problem.
    What this forum needs is a BS'ers lounge, that way those who don't really want to talk football can go there.

    Wait, don't they have a place like that???
     
  20. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    I continue to see people making the same recommendation but none of the moderators are listening. I guess they prefer to mix everything together. Makes for a tough read some times.
     
  21. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    Back to the topic...

    Yes LT is not hitting it like he should but look at those defenders. Greenbay has fast guys on the side so when it doesn't work in the middle its hard to do fakes. Ya we beat 8 in the box last year, not 11 in the box. Its a new thing defenses are doing this is what the article points out.

    It makes our guys get open however Rivers has overthrown and were not able to get past it until the 2nd half. Now during the KC game we can use the 10 in the box for LJ since KC has a crappy QB with decent recievers. WE can do what Greenbay did against us to make LJ rush for less than 100 hards.

    We have found a way to combat this defense, KC has not. This is good news for the Chargers since now we can open it up and try new plays getting away from Cams playbook.

    As Norv puts in more plays and makes the offense his own expect to see more than 4 or 5 TDs a game on average.
     
  22. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    This "new" thing the author references is nothing new at all. For that matter, if anyone tries to state something is "new" as a defense is full of ****.

    Every play imaginable, every defense imaginable has already been run. There is nothing "new" left as an excuse and that is exactly what we are reading.

    11 on 11 only has so many match ups and plenty of gurus have already broken it down.
     
  23. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

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    T-Man get the lighters, lighter fluid and gasoline ready because we better beat the livin fuc out of the Chiefs. :bolt:

    Otherwise it's time to burn it down.
     
  24. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    This one will be a dog fight. Every match up within our division will be nasty this year. If we take care of our division, we can fuc em all.

    Norv has to be like Felix the Cat and start pulling **** out to save the day or that dude is facing a lynching. :yes:
     
  25. cranberry

    cranberry BoltTalker

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    We can't await to see this shemes right now today.
     
  26. 400HZ

    400HZ BoltTalker

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    O line, Neal, Manu are all sucking this year. We couldn't run against Green Bay when their safeties were staying deep. Green Bay isn't even THAT good. The hornheads are getting 6 yard gains up the middle right now. Our blockers just need to take their ***** pants off and start mauling people like they did last year. We also need a new head coach.
     
  27. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    We do have a lot of players sucking right now who are not playing like they were last year. Now they can blame the coaching for not getting them fired enough but that is just a cop out. Are you really not playing very well because you don't have a speech or a tough TC.

    Stop looking for excuses if you need others to motivate you and the coaches are not doing it read the Fing Message boards. Talk to friends, to fans. Hell have Merriman Rivers and are other players give speeches. Hire motivational speakers.

    Whatever the case is don't blame you playing ****** because your "not motivated enough".
     
  28. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    They still lost.
     

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