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Ryan Mathews fights on to prove worth (2013 version)

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by CoronaDoug, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. SayOw

    SayOw BoltTalker

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    Comparing crap amongst crap doesn't change it is still crap.
     
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, the vast majority of NFL running backs are scarcely a blip on the radar.
    So far Mathews' career has been cursed enough to make a lot of fans give up,
    which I totally understand (though I find the "bust" stuff emotional or just entirely lacking perspective).
    I see a guy with rare skills who I'd REALLY like to see stay healthy enough to explore.
    Odds are against him, as they are against all backs. Time will tell.
     
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  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Look at the bright side...... there's not a lot of miles on those treds. ;)
     
  4. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    He is cheap, and finding a replacement that is better, would either be more expensive as a free agent and they don't come around very often, and if we happen to use an early pick on one (Who still would likely not be better immediately), would cost us the ability to draft linemen which is the absolute biggest need this team will have, and the area of the team that will help both Rivers and our RB's. I am not saying don't draft one in the 4th or 5th, but anyone who says we should just move on from Matthews, meaning that we cut him and get someone else, is talking out of their ***
     
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  5. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Actually, he still has 2 years on his contract since he signed a 5 year rookie deal. So next year isn't his contract year
     
  6. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    And who are you replacing him with? He had over 1500 rushing and recieving yards in 2011. The line will get fixed, we will get a better coach, and he has 2 years to show that he deserved to be drafted there. But to say cut him now, that is absolutely asinine
     
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  7. SatchBolt

    SatchBolt BoltTalker

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    He never seems to get big yardage when we really need it. He hasn't been clutch.
     
  8. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Spiller was splitting time his first two seasons. In his first season as "the guy", he put up 1700+ yds of receiving and rushing offense. Jahvid Best is in an offense with the 2nd best offensive player in the NFL, and Gerhart is the back up to Adrian Peterson, the best offensive player in the NFL. Mathews, in his first season as "the guy", put up 957 yds rushing/receiving through 12 games.

    My favorite part of your post was how you harped on Spiller's overall production, although he was the number 2 back in his first 2 seasons with the team, and in his first season as the starter has been fantastic.
     
  9. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    So isn;t that pretty telling that as a top 10 pick, Spiller hasn't been able to become "the guy"?

    In the grand scheme of things, that was a piss poor RB draft, kind of like the 06 draft was for QB's
     
  10. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Spiller is currently "the guy". He did a pretty decent job, coming in with 1700+ yds of offense. His statline is kind of weird though. I can only surmise that he must've been injured at various points along the way.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13203/cj-spiller

    Also, the Bold is very true IMO. What a great move by Smitty to trade up for a RB in a year where the RBs were all garbage.
     
  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, yes, you're exactly making my point for me:
    Some people are so eager to denigrate Chargers, or coaches or ownership, etc.,
    that they'll make excuses for other members of other teams
    (while decrying those who would explain away Charger shortcomings as "homers") [Which is why you're a "Marge"] :)
    in an attempt to make the Chargers look bad.
    Of course, if Mathews was a backup to anyone, that would be proof he was a poor pick.
    The biggest reason--by a mile--for Jahvid Best's poor numbers is injury. Making up
    some lame "offense with the 2nd best offensive player in the NFL" nonsense is really
    sad, even for you Ike. You know darn well that since it's fashionable to trump up the
    games missed by Mathews, that you dare not mention that Best's productivity is half of
    Mathews' because Best has only been in 22 games.
    Unlike you, most NFL watchers would cite not suiting up once in 2012 as the obvious
    reason that Best has been a big let down.
    Of course, you're alright with Spiller--the undisputed "sure thing" of the 2010 draft--
    not earning a starting position, in arguably the easiest position on the field for a rookie
    to come in and start producing...because, well, he's not a Charger.
    Excuses for Spiller & Best for their lesser productivity? "Sure!" says Ike. "Loads!"
    Attacking the indisputably most productive, the Charger, as a wasted draft pick?
    Sure! That's how you roll!
     
  12. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I don't believe that I once said that it was acceptable for those players to have low totals, simply that those were the reasons for those totals. I was, however, thoroughly amused by your mocking of Spiller, considering that, though he was certainly a disappointment in his first two seasons, he's been exactly what he was advertised as in his third. Mathews, meanwhile, even when healthy, can't even get on the field on third down.

    I lolled at the red in real life. I really did. Mathews has been the most productive of all of those backs, no question, but he's the most productive in a group of thoroughly unproductive runners. The difference between Mathews and Spiller, and the reason why Mathews is rapidly earning a bust label, is because when they were given opportunities to be the unquestioned starter on their respective rosters, Mathews went no where and Spiller, excuse the pun, ran away with his opportunity.

    Mathews, to date, has not shown any signs of ever being a 3-down back. He's never shown signs of being a game-breaking or big-play runner, and even when healthy this season carried the rock at a plodding 3.8 YPC. In his best season (2011), he was still 1.1 YPC over a similar number of carries to Spiller's performance this season.

    I don't like Mathews as a player, because his performance envelope is supremely average. Moreover, we paid a high price to acquire him. If Mathews was a UDFA, I'm sure that we'd all be elated with his 0 opportunity cost average performance. However, when you draft someone with your 1st and 2nd round draft picks, you expect him to at least be a quality starter at some point. Since Mathews can't even seem to achieve this, labeling him a bust does not seem too terribly unreasonable.
     
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  13. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    At the end of the day, you're still irrationally defending the less productive, more costly non-Charger,
    over the more productive, less costly, later draft pick Charger.

    What psychology is behind your consistent anti-Charger whining is beyond me,
    and frankly, I don't care. I'm just using the stats to have a laugh at it.

    p.s. It takes a special breed of "fan" to deride a Charger, Mathews, by declaring that
    "He's failed the 'stays on the field' test," but attributes (out for all of 2012)
    Best's vastly inferior production to the nature of Detroit's offense. :confused:
    Honestly, I know Raider fans who are more honest and fair to the Chargers.
     
  14. SayOw

    SayOw BoltTalker

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    If we want to start comparing numbers and averages, it is clear Spiller's career has outperformed that of Mathews...plus, the outlook for Spiller is promising...not so much for Mathews.

    Spiller's career average per carry is a full yard more than Mathews. Spiller has a career long run of 62 yards, Mathews' is 39 yards. Mathews has 176 more rushing attempts yet only 388 more yards. How about fumbles? Spiller: 10 Mathews: 12. How about 100 yard rushing games from last season? Spiller: FIVE Mathews: ZERO. With the exception of his first season first two games, Spiller has also been available for every game. If Spiller would have had the opportunity to touch the ball as much as Mathews has, his stat line would greatly outdo that of Mathews.
     
  15. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    It's almost as if Spiller was a Top Ten draft pick (and Mathews wasn't) with much higher expectations.

    I like Spiller. The argument was a refutation of the "bust" label re. Mathews, by pointing out
    that Mathews has generated more offense than any of the other 13 2010 backs...
    including the "star" drafted in front of him.
    (and no, you don't get to pad your Mathews-bashing by presuming Spiller will reverse the tide in 2013)
     
  16. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Well, if we don't get to make prognostications on future performance, then the only available option is to say that they've all been busts to this point, not to say that Mathews hasn't been a bust with his piss-poor production. The fact that he rises above the performances of his also, since their drafting, underperforming contemporaries doesn't make him a good back.
     
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  17. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Wow! 14 out of 14 RBs are "busts!" It's almost as if the word is meaningless, used this way. :rolleyes:

    Yeah, I'm hesitant re. grading or making judgements on stuff that hasn't happened.
    (but don't let me slow you down!)
     
  18. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    The bust rate in the NFL is actually quite high. What makes Mathews "special" would be that he's shaping up to be a 1st round bust, who the team traded up to acquire.
     
  19. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Okay, so you're just using the term "bust" in a new, fresh, zesty way that it's never been used before,
    re, the NFL.
    Yeah, if Spiller, Mathews, Best, Gerhart, Tate, Hardesty, McKnight, Dixon, Karim,
    Dwyer, Starks, Scott & Blount, etc. are "busts" in Ike-speak, we're not on the same page...
     
  20. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    he abs
    He absolutely was (Had him on a fantasy team, and he did have several injuries through the season), and didn't get to be the guy until Fred Jackson got hurt, meaning he didn't out perform Jackson to earn the job.
     
  21. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I don't think anyone would argue that he hasn't lived up to the level that would make his cost to us worth it. But to call a guy, 1 year removed from a 1500+ combined yard season, who was running behind the worst line in the entire NFL, a bust, is a little premature. And anyone who suggests we should simply cut him, is just talking out their ***
     
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  22. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    You're adorable. Please give me a pic of your face looking angelic so that I can make it my desktop.
     
  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Use a nice frame! I AM adorable!!!

    Lancie.jpg
     
  24. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    How can you call his 2011 season "piss poor"? It was his 2nd year, and he had more total yards than Steven Jackson, Jamal Charles, Matt Forte, and barely less than LeSean McCoy did their 2nd year.

    I don;t think anyone is saying e will be the next LT or AP. But to say he has been a bust, is an asinine statement especially how bad our OL has been the last 2 years
     
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  25. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    You're right, I'm wrong. Sign him to a 7 year 100 mil contract before someone pilfers him from our roster!
     
  26. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    no one is saying that. But he still has 2 years on his contract. Lets see what he does in the next 2 years then we can talk about what to do
     
  27. SayOw

    SayOw BoltTalker

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    We've done that for 3 years already...sit around to see what he can do next year...

    It's now a point of principal for some people...since they LOVED the Mathews pick they can't bear to cut their losses and move on...similar to football teams...when they invest a considerable amount of time and money on a player they often don't want to simply let the player go despite it sometimes being the overtly obvious move.
     
  28. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Nice theory, but it doesn't work for me:
    I wanted the Chargers to draft big man Dwyer to balance little guy Sproles...
    I hadn't considered Mathews. But once I saw what he could do, I realized
    that he had the tools for greatness...so yes, now I want him to have a chance to blossom...
     
  29. SayOw

    SayOw BoltTalker

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  30. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I hated the Matthews pick, so that has nothing to do with it. The point is, there is no FA's better if the only rookie we are getting who has the chance to be immediately better would be another 1st round pick, which means we don't address the line which is far and away the biggest need this team has.

    It isn't about understanding that he hasn't lived up to his draft position, it is about the FACT that there is no one else that would be better. I am all for bringing in another Ronnie Brown type guy to take the ball, and drafting another RB in the middle rounds. But the only way you cut Matthews is if you have someone better, which we don;t have and are unlikely to get. You don't just cut him because you are pissed at him.
     
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