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Safeties: By the numbers

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Shamrock, Mar 27, 2007.

  1. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    The "short shuttle" also called the 20 yard shuttle, is a drill that measures change of direction in a player. Per Kirwan and Brandt, a player should be about a half second faster in the short shuttle than his 40 yard dash time. If he is .5 second faster, that shows the player has good change of direction. It's especially important for a DB to display a quick change of direction. To find this time (40 - short shuttle) I'll use the players best documented 40 time. Descriptions of the short shuttle and 3 cone (another change of direction drill) are here.

    ~~~~~~

    Combine DB results

    ~~~~~~

    * Laron Landry (LSU) - FS/SS -6'0" 213 (LSU Pro Day data)

    40 = 4.35 (Combine)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.36 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = (-).01 This is a HORRIBLE score.
    3 cone = 7.11

    Vert - 38 (Pro Day) 37.5 (Combine)
    Long jump - 10' 6" (Pro Day) - 10'3" (Combine)
    Bench - 20 (pro day)
    Power Explosion = 68.5


    * Michael Griffin (Texas) FS/SS - 6'0" 202 lbs

    40 = 4.45 (Combine) - 4.40 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.10 (Combine)
    40 - short shuttle = .30
    3 cone = 6.60

    Vert - 39.5 (Pro Day) 36 (Combine)
    Long jump - 10' (Combine)
    Bench - 16
    Power Explosion = 65.5


    * Brandon Merriweather (Miami) - FS - 5'10" 195 lbs

    40 = 4.47 (Combine)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.33 (Combine) - 4.42 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .14 (If I used Pro Day number, the difference is only .05. Again, that's horrible.)
    3 cone = 7.06

    Vert - 35 (Combine)
    Long jump - 9'3" (Combine) - 9' (Pro Day)
    Bench - 11
    Power Explosion = 55

    * Reggie Nelson (Florida) - FS - 6'0" 198 lbs

    40 = 4.48 (Combine) - 4.35 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.15 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .33 (result .20 using Pro Day 40 time)
    3 cone = 6.67 (Pro Day)

    Vert - 35 (Pro Day) 34.5 (Combine)
    Long jump - 10'6" (Pro Day)
    Bench - I don't see his bench number listed anywhere. I googled the hell out of it, and no result.
    Power Explosion =

    * Eric Weddle (Utah) - SS - 5'11" 203 lbs

    40 = 4.48 (Combine)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.12 (Combine)
    40 - short shuttle = .36
    3 cone = 6.78

    Vert - 35 (Pro Day) 33.5 (Combine)
    Long jump - 9'5" (Combine) - 9'6" (Pro Day)
    Bench - 11
    Power Explosion = 55.5

    * Josh Gattis (Wake Forest) - FS - 6'1" 206 lbs

    40 = 4.51 (Combine) - 4.47 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.27 (Combine) - 4.35 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .24 (Combine) - .13 (Pro Day)
    3 cone = 6.72 (Combine) - 6.99 (Pro Day)

    Vert - 35 (Pro Day) 34.5 (Combine)
    Long jump - 10'1" (Combine) - 10'4" (Pro Day)
    Bench - 22 (same result combine and pro day)
    Power Explosion = 67


    * Michael Johnson (Arizona) - SS - 6'3" 205 lbs

    40 = 4.62 (Combine) - 4.53 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.32 (Combine) - 4.11 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .30 (Combine) - .42 (Pro Day)
    3 cone = 7.04 (Combine) - 7.08 (Pro Day)

    Vert - 35.5 (Pro Day) 33 (Combine)
    Long jump - 9'6" (Combine) - 9'9" (Pro Day)
    Bench - 15 (Combine) - 18 (Pro Day)
    Power Explosion = 63 (using combo of best numbers)

    * Aaron Rouse (Virginia Tech) - SS - 6-4 221

    40 = 4.58 (Combine) - 4.53 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.19 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .34
    3 cone = 6.81 (Pro Day)

    Vert - 35 (Combine)
    Long jump - 10'1" (Pro Day)
    Bench - 16 (Combine)
    Power Explosion = 61

    * Sabby Piscitelli (Oregon St) - FS/SS - 6-3 224

    40 = 4.47 (Combine) - 4.43 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 3.90 (Combine)
    40 - SS = .53
    3 cone = 6.84

    Vert - 34 1/2
    Long jump - 10' 2"
    Bench - 19
    Power Explosion = 63.5



    * John Wendling (Wyoming) - FS/SS - 6'1" 222lbs

    40 = 4.48 (Combine)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.16 (Combine)
    40 - short shuttle = .32
    3 cone = 6.96 (Combine)

    Vert - 38.5 (Combine)
    Long jump - 10'9" (Combine)
    Bench - 22 (Combine)
    Power Explosion = 71
     
  2. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    If we dont go for a S in the 1st, and this is just going off that info you posted, we would probably take Wendling in the 2nd

    AJ love the power explosion ratings for his defensive players
     
  3. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Rankings:

    40 yard dash minus short shuttle

    1. Sabby Piscitelli (.53)
    2. Michael Johnson (.42)
    3. Eric Weddle (.36)
    4. Aaron Rouse (.34)
    5. Reggie Nelson (.33)
    6. John Wendling (.32)
    7. Michael Griffin (.30)
    8. Josh Gattis (.24)
    9. Brandon Merriweather (.14)
    10. LaRon Landry (-.01)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Kirwan Power/Explosion Number

    1. John Wendling -71
    2. LaRon Landry - 68.5
    3. Josh Gattis - 67
    4. Michael Griffin - 65.5
    5. Sabby Piscitelli - 63.5
    6. Michael Johnson - 63
    7. Aaron Rouse - 61
    8. Eric Weddle - 55.5
    9. Brandon Merriweather - 55
    10. Reggie Nelson - DNQ

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    3 cone drill

    1. Michael Griffin - 6.60
    2. Reggie Nelson - 6.67
    3. Josh Gattis - 6.72
    4. Eric Weddle - 6.78
    5. Aaron Rouse - 6.81
    6. Sabby Piscitelli - 6.84
    7. John Wendling - 6.96
    8. Michael Johnson - 7.04
    9. Brandon Merriweather - 7.06
    10. LaRon Landry - 7.11

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Short shuttle

    1. Sabby Piscitelli - 3.90
    2. Michael Griffin - 4.10
    3. Michael Johnson - 4.11
    4. Eric Weddle - 4.12
    5. Reggie Nelson - 4.15
    6. John Wendling - 4.16
    7. Aaron Rouse - 4.19
    8. Josh Gattis - 4.27
    9. Brandon Merriweather - 4.33
    10. Laron Landry - 4.36
    11. Marvin White - 4.39

    *** - edit - Combined all the "rankings" into one post .....
     
  4. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    So are you another Piscatelli homer then?
     
  5. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    I'm not homering for anyone in particular. I don't want any dumb asses though. SD hasn't had a safety with both brains and speed in a long time.

    Some guys look the part (Kiel, Rogers Beckett) but are so stupid they are ineffective. Wilson and Rodney were smart, but lacked wheels.

    I've been a proponent of interchangeable safeties for a long time. Having a guy that has the speed to play FS, and the strength to play SS gives the defense flexibility of scheme. It also destroys predictability that offenses seek in order to attack a defense.

    For the short term, McCree can play either FS or SS. The next drafted safety should also be able to play both.
     
  6. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    3 cone drill

    1. Michael Griffin - 6.60
    2. Reggie Nelson - 6.67
    3. Josh Gattis - 6.72
    4. Eric Weddle - 6.78
    5. Aaron Rouse - 6.81
    6. Sabby Piscitelli - 6.84
    7. John Wendling - 6.96
    8. Michael Johnson - 7.04
    9. Brandon Merriweather - 7.06
    10. LaRon Landry - 7.11
     
  7. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    I want Marvin White
     
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  8. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Over 4.5 in the 40. I guess TCU hasn't had a Pro Day, as all his numbers aren't posted to do a comparison.

    ***edit***

    I take that back. TCU had their Pro Day.

    So .......

    Marvin White (TCU) - FS/SS -6'1" 195 lbs

    40 = 4.54 (Combine) - 4.52 (Pro Day - 4.47 with the wind; 4.62 against the wind)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.39 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .13
    3 cone = 6.98

    Vert - 33.5 (Combine)
    Long jump - 9' 6" (Pro Day)
    Bench - 17 (Combine)
    Power Explosion = 60

    Those numbers put him in the bottom five in all three "Rankings" categories .....
     
  9. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    NFL.com lists Reggie Nelson's short shuttle at 3.97.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/nelson_reggie
     
  10. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Pro Day results on NFL.com show 4.15.

     
  11. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    How to measure power and explosion - Pat Kirwan - NFL.com

    In case anyone wanted a refresher on Power/Explosion.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Kirwan discussion the 40 and short shuttle:

     
  12. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Short shuttle

    1. Sabby Piscitelli - 3.90
    2. Michael Griffin - 4.10
    3. Michael Johnson - 4.11
    4. Eric Weddle - 4.12
    5. Reggie Nelson - 4.15
    6. John Wendling - 4.16
    7. Aaron Rouse - 4.19
    8. Josh Gattis - 4.27
    9. Brandon Merriweather - 4.33
    10. Laron Landry - 4.36
    11. Marvin White - 4.39
     
  13. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but according to his draft profile, his campus workout numbers were:
    4.37 in the 40-yard dash … 325-pound bench press … 315-pound power clean … 39-inch vertical jump … 10-foot broad jump … 3.97 20-yard shuttle … 32-inch arm length … 9½-inch hands.
     
  14. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Two numbers .... same web site.

    Somebody is wrong, and they are getting paid by the same employer.
     
  15. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    But it certainly makes a difference. You think they would at least make sure their numbers matched.
     
  16. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Which was hand timed? Which was electric timed? Was it a discrepancy between two hand timers?

    Heck, I don't know. Funny looking at 40 times, because some use high, some low, some combine electric, some combine hand, some pro day, some average. It's all over the map.
     
  17. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    For all the Reggie Nelson pimp brigade ......

    From the Green Bay Press Gazette

    Also, from the same paper ....

     
  18. Daddy_O

    Daddy_O Well-Known Member

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    AKA Terrence Kiel.:tdown:
     
  19. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Aaron Rouse.
     
  20. Electric Chair

    Electric Chair New Member

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    I wonder if Weddle would fall to us in the 2nd? I love that kid.

    AJ loves whities...
     
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  21. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Weddle is definitely growing on me. Here's an interview from earlier this year:

    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/interviews/ericweddle/ericweddle.html

    He's the kind of guy you'd love to see on this team. People want to say he's not that fast or athletic, but he played corner against CJ in college and limited him to 2 catches for 19 yards. Also, Weddle's workout times were pretty good:

    4.48 40 yard dsash
    4.12 short shuttle

    I'd be happy with Weddle in the 2nd.

    The more I see the depth of this draft at safety, the more I think we might take a WR #1. There should be a good safety available in round 2.
     
  22. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    The WR's seems as deep as the safeties.

    The more I see on the depth of both WR and S, it seems AJ might just go best player from a wider variety of positions that we expect in the first round. OL, DL, ILB, OLB, S, CB, WR ..... honestly, it could be any of those positions for our first selection.
     
  23. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Another safety to consider .... but he's from the same school as Kiel :lol:

    #82 on Gosselin's Top 100 players

    Melvin Bullitt, S, Texas A&M - 6'1" - 201 lbs


    40 = 4.48 (Pro Day)
    20 shuttle (short shuttle) 3.97 (Pro Day)
    40 - short shuttle = .51
    3 cone = 6.90

    Vert - 40 1/2 (Pro Day)
    Long jump - 10' 5" (Pro Day)
    Bench - 15 (pro day)
    Power Explosion = 65
     
  24. Electric Chair

    Electric Chair New Member

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    Serious ups. :tup:
     
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  25. Sanitation Man

    Sanitation Man BoltTalker

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    This safety thing has got my chonies in a bunch. After reading through this thread and through many other sites, I can see how we could get a possible starter at safety in the second round (i.e. Sabby Piscitelli or John Weddle). I was adamant on getting Meriweather or Nelson in the first. Those power explosion numbers and the difference in 40 and short shuttle explanations by Shamrock helped me realize that we may not need to and take the BPA.

    Shamrock also brought up a great point of the player needing to have smarts along with speed to play the postion properly. Something we have lacked in years past. It's been one or the other, never both. Whatever the choice is, I'm sure it will be someone who will be able to step right in and help the team hoist the Lombardi.
     
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  26. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one that thinks Griffin might end up being the best safety in this draft, even better than Landry? He's got solid instincts, he did nearly as well in drills and he's a real leader.
     
  27. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Griffin is Chargeroo's choice, I think.

    I don't dislike him, just not totally sold on him.
     
  28. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    He put up much better numbers than Landry in college. What aren't you sold on? I thought you usually pimped those Texas boys.
     
  29. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    I'm concerned on his tackling, as he went for big hits more than wrapping up a guy to make a sure tackle.

    Also, just in general about the 'Horns .... they seemed to give up a lot of passing yards in big games, yet over this draft and '06 draft they'll have their entire secondary selected on the first day ('06 Huff round one to 'Turds, C. Griffin round two to Vikes - '07 Ross and M. Griffin first day prospects). Somebody was the weak link in there, or Mack Brown wasn't coaching them right.

    Overall within the safeties, I just don't feel like anybody after Landry is really a first round talent. I don't see a whole lot of difference in some players rated lower vs. the top guys (as rated by the pundits and draftniks). It becomes more of a question of value than a specific knock on Griffin.
     

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