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San Diego is on Fire, Again.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Daddy_O, Oct 21, 2007.

  1. TheLash

    TheLash Well-Known Member

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    I think i'm gonna make a sign for this game that says "Thank You Fire Fighters". Then if there's room left i'll put Go Bolts!:tup:
     
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  2. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    Just put the Bolt Logo above/below that message :bolt:

    :tup:
     
  3. KimPossible

    KimPossible BoltTalker

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    Santiago fire only 35% contained, has burned 35,000+ acres, 2000 firefighters at work, many planes, smoke billowing up hundreds of feet...light drizzle is possible and much cooler weather, light winds today only 5mph will help immensely. Humidity is increasing which decreases fire danger. I am really mad at this arsonist. He should be charged with arson and murder when he is found (white Ford F150 being sought)...If the OC and Riverside firefighters were not working to put out this inferno since the start, they could have been in SD instead and lives and homes may have been saved.

    This person is a fiend. He has hurt people, killed wildlife, cost millions, closed the freeway, and destroyed a beautiful area.

    $250k reward. He needs to go to prison for life. Even that is not enough.

    But overall I think good outweighs evil.

    The Governor: "If I were one of the people who started the fires I would not sleep soundly."

    My cousin is a fire chief in the mountains, his son a new firefighter and my other doctor cousin lives in Lake Arrowhead and was evacuated. Up to four of the fires were arson, two for sure.
     
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  4. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'm not getting it H8er, what would this A/C be used for with respect to the fire, a FAC?? :icon_shrug: :icon_huh: :icon_eek:
     
  5. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    That Picture was taken on the flight deck of the Ronald Reagan looking towards Downtown San Diego.

    The Aircraft you are looking at is that Practice Towing Plane I made for them. And it has nothing to do with the fire.
     
  6. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    Got it, H8er, thanx :icon_toast:
     
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  7. cranberry

    cranberry BoltTalker

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    In our TVnews they explained, the fire of SoCal has destroyed 5 times the size of the city of Berlin. Because of a lot of countryside in Berlin this sounds really huge. They also told half of the wildfires could be coming from arsonists. in our family we discussed this and
    nobody could imagine what's going on inside the brain of such an unhuman mind.
    If the police gets those people the punishment can't be hard enough.
    No city should be allowed to give the burned area free to build houses. Southern California will be the peak of the arrow against
    the climatic chance, when the politicians prevent the possibility of
    future fires.
     
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  8. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    It sounds very good, but in real life, no matter how the Politicians try to regulate the people. You are going to have people with a warped and have a different set of values for life and people. A Majority of the people will follow the rules and regulations. You are going to have a few that choose their values differently. Some are even sick in the way they view life. Arsonists, Pedophiles, Murderers, they all look at life in a different way. Their priorities are not the same as the majority.
     
  9. KimPossible

    KimPossible BoltTalker

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    I just had to cut short my walk/jog because it started raining...just lightly which is just what we need. This weather has to help all the fires still burning...see God listens to our prayers...and reads the forums :icon_wink:

    Hi Cranberry...yeah who can understand the warped brain of an arsonist..no normal person. I do however, think everyone should be able to rebuild in their areas with the requirement that good fireproofing in construction is used. That helps immensely.
     
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  10. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    This would be the second time a lot of houses burned down because of fire codes that need to be a lot stricter in certain areas.
     
  11. KimPossible

    KimPossible BoltTalker

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    There's a type of construction that is so good and fire-resistant that you are supposed to be able to stay in your home during the fire as a shelter...I forget what it is called but some homes are already constructed like that...I would be afraid to stay during a fire but I bet a lot of people would come back to see their homes still standing. There is also some gel that is supposed to work.
     
  12. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    They interviewed one older gentleman, when he built his house; a sprinkler system was built into the roof. His house survived the Cedar fire and the Witch creek Fire. His neighbors will have to rebuild again.
     
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  13. KimPossible

    KimPossible BoltTalker

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    I think the houses I am talking about are called "Shelter in Place"...they are so fire-proof people can stay in them during the actual fire and ride it out (not me...I would evacuate)...they also have fire-resistant roofs and walls... I think it is ok to re-build in fire-prone areas if this kind of technology is used. We all are at risk for something: fire, earthquake, flood, landslide. Gotta go!
     
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  14. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    I am positive that the fire-resistant materials are improving almost daily. But with houses in this City all ready over $300.000 for a fixer upper, the cost for these materials would drive the cost through the roof.

    But than if you can afford a $5.000.000.00 than you can afford to renovate with the new materials.
     
  15. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    ITS RAINING!!!!!

    Its 6:00 PM on Saturday Night, and it has started to rain in Lakeside!
     
  16. VikingBolt

    VikingBolt BoltTalker

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    It's been sprinkling off and on all day along the coast, so glad to hear it's spread inland.
     
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  17. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    We got a few drops earlier, I thought it was the car in front of us cleaning their winshield on the freeway.
     
  18. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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  19. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    Feel free to send him an email...
    http://www.profootballtalk.com/columnist.htm

    Fuggin' ay... is dude struggling for notoriety or what? :yes:
     
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  20. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    you mean like this?


    Mike Florio, you my fat friend are a piece of garbage. What gives you the right to go on Video and cry like you did?



    The Chargers are a San Diego Team. And ever since Feb.10 1961, when the Chargers left Los Angeles, because that sorry *** city wouldn’t support them then.



    And since then Los Angeles has 2 other NFL Teams, The Rams and the Raiders. Once again that sorry *** city would not support any NFL Teams.



    Now that the Chargers are on the verge of becoming a dynasty in the NFL, now you want them to move back?



    KISS MY ***!!!!!!!!!!



    If the NFL wanted an NFL Team in that sorry *** city, they would of all ready have another one there. Go cry and try and bring the Texans into that sorry *** city. The NFL wanted Houston over Los Angeles.



    WHY, why did they do that?



    LOS Angeles has not supported the 3 Teams they had, why would that sorry *** city get a 4th chance?
     
  21. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    Lack of spotters blamed

    Grounded military helicopters blamed on lack of 'spotters'

    By Tony Manolatos
    UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

    November 3, 2007

    EDUARDO CONTRERAS / Union-Tribune

    A military helicopter helped fight wildfires that threatened a Lake Hodges neighborhood Oct. 23. Days earlier, some copters were delayed because of a rule that spotters had to be on board.
    Getting military helicopters into the air during a firestorm became a top priority for San Diego County leaders after the 2003 Cedar and Paradise fires.

    But when winds and flames blew into Southern California last week, the plan the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection had devised fell apart.

    As two fires raged out of control Oct. 21, at least six military helicopters waited on the ground in San Diego County. Several state and local aircraft were flying, but the military helicopters weren't because of a requirement that “spotters” be on board.

    It wasn't until the afternoon of Oct. 22, as more fires erupted and flames moved into heavily populated areas such as Rancho Bernardo, that two Navy Seahawks were allowed to join the fight and a National Guard helicopter was sent to help evacuate people.

    Cal Fire blamed the delay on a shortage of military helicopter managers, better known as spotters – trained wild-land firefighters who help military pilots position water drops and communicate with firefighters in the air and on the ground.

    Cal Fire created the spotter program three years ago in response to sharp criticism of its decision not to use military aircraft during the 2003 wildfires. The state fire agency, which cited safety and tactical concerns for that decision, assured local officials that the problem had been solved.

    Spotters aren't needed on larger military planes because they fly high above the aerial attack. But spotters would be required on the workhorse helicopters that fly close to the ground, lugging massive buckets of water from ponds and lakes.


    NELVIN CEPEDA / Union-Tribune

    Cal Fire Battalion Chief Ray Chaney said spotters have at least two or three years' experience as pilots and wild-land firefighters. "That's what's key to keeping the military aerial crew safe," he said.
    Interviews with more than a dozen people responsible for coordinating air and ground operations during last week's wildfires revealed that the spotter program failed at just about every turn.

    “At the highest level of the state, this system has broken down – for the second time,” said county Supervisor Ron Roberts, who served as the county's spokesman during the fires and was among dozens of officials who attended daily strategy sessions at the county's Emergency Operations Center.


    Facing mounting criticism, Cal Fire officials altered their policy three days into the firestorms to allow one spotter to orchestrate water drops for a squadron of three aircraft. That change put four additional Navy helicopters into the air.

    Roberts said that despite daily requests, only three spotters were activated in San Diego County.

    Roberts became more infuriated when he learned last week that five spotters employed by the San Diego Fire-Rescue Department had been available but were never called. It turned out that the five are certified by Cal Fire to fly on privately owned helicopters hired by the state, but not on military aircraft.

    Battalion Chief Ray Chaney, who runs air operations for Cal Fire-San Diego, said 39 military helicopter managers are spread across the state. He's not sure how many are based locally.

    “Would I like more? Sure. But would I like to compromise the training and the standards we have? No,” Chaney said. “We have a very good program, but it's one of the things we're looking at as part of our own critical review.”


    Navy officials agree that spotters are useful.

    The radios on Navy helicopters don't work with the radios firefighters carry on the ground, said Capt. Matt Brown, spokesman for Navy Region Southwest. Spotters carry portable radios that allow them to bridge the gap. They also have at least two or three years' experience as pilots and wild-land firefighters, Chaney said.

    “That's what's key to keeping the military aerial crew safe and getting the most out of the water drops,” he said.

    But as homes burned across the county, Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Alpine, and other lawmakers urged Cal Fire to dump the spotter program entirely.

    In Florida, another fire-prone state, no such requirement exists.

    Instead, the Florida Division of Forestry, the state fire agency, has an arrangement with the Florida Army Air National Guard to provide at least six Black Hawks. The copters can quickly be transformed into firefighting machines that carry 700-gallon buckets, said Bob Duty, air tactical coordinator at the forestry division. The National Guard pilots train twice a year with firefighters, and their radios are compatible.

    “They come in and practice bucket drops,” Duty said. “They're very good.”

    Cal Fire has trained Navy and National Guard pilots, but there isn't a system in place to ensure that these pilots aren't deployed to Iraq or other places.

    Unexpected resistance
    Heading into last week's fires, Roberts was well aware of the lack of coordination between Cal Fire and the military. He still remembers what he was told in 2003.

    Cal Fire officials “told us it was unsafe” to deploy military aircraft while those fires were raging, Roberts said. “They said: 'They can't come in – period. This is our fire to fight, not theirs.' ”

    Roberts said he never expected to run into such resistance four years later as he drove to the emergency operations center to confront a new set of wildfires.

    That first day at the operations center was confusing at best, he said.

    Officials were still assembling when alarming media reports and updates from the field started coming in. Initially, several leaders, including the governor, said strong winds grounded some aircraft, though it's now generally agreed that other factors were responsible for grounding the military helicopters in San Diego.

    The first indications that the issues from 2003 hadn't been resolved surfaced early Oct. 22 in closed-door-meetings held around a conference table at the operations center.

    Roberts asked why the military wasn't making water drops.

    He said a Cal Fire representative pulled him aside and told him the military's equipment wasn't working because salt water had corroded the buckets used by the aircraft.

    On Oct. 23, however, Roberts said the blame was shifted to a lack of spotters.

    Roberts had never heard the term, so Deputy Chief Steve Heil, Cal Fire's point person at the operations center, provided a quick explanation.

    “When I heard: 'It's not the buckets. You gotta have spotters, and we don't have any spotters.' That's when I really lost my temper,” Roberts said.

    Fred Sainz, a spokesman for Mayor Jerry Sanders, was among those who heard the exchange among Roberts, Heil and other Cal Fire officials.

    “(Roberts) erupted. He dressed them down, probably for a good 10 minutes,” said Sainz, who also was frustrated with the answers Cal Fire was providing.

    Roberts said that Heil, who didn't return calls seeking comment for this story, seemed to be trying to help.

    “I think someone with Cal Fire was stonewalling him,” Roberts said. “He was trying to round up this assistance for us. He couldn't call these spotters up. He was dependent on the leadership in Sacramento, and he wasn't getting any good answers. He was very uncomfortable having to tell me this every day.”

    Late on the night of Oct. 23, Republican Reps. Hunter, Darrell Issa and Brian Bilbray began grilling Heil at the operations center. Unhappy with the answers they were receiving, they told Heil to get his boss, Cal Fire Director Ruben Grijalva, on the phone.

    Grijalva told them that as many as 19 military helicopters in Southern California were ready to fly. Some had been ready Oct. 21, but they didn't take off because there weren't any spotters.

    One of the problems may be that the people Cal Fire trained as spotters also have other essential firefighting jobs and could never be made available to the military during an emergency, said Kurt Bardella, Bilbray's press secretary.

    “Which is why the congressman and others wanted the spotter agreement to be waived, so we could use all of our available resources to fight the wildfires,” Bardella said.

    Grijalva amended the spotter requirement the next morning.

    When asked about the lack of spotters, Cal Fire's director of communications, Mike Jarvis, said Oct. 22: “We will not respond to minutiae on air operations at this time. We're still in the middle of an operation.”

    Later in the week, Jarvis said Cal Fire is compiling a detailed air-operations report that will show the type and number of aircraft used to fight each fire. He said the report also will detail how many military helicopters were grounded, along with when and why.

    Continued
     
  22. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    Continued

    Copters on standby
    If more military copters had been worked into the airspace above the fires, they quickly would have been put to use, said Javier Mainar, San Diego's assistant fire chief.

    “As the Witch fire burned into Rancho Bernardo, we were asking Cal Fire for air support and additional strike teams (on the ground), and we were told nothing was available,” Mainar said. “I'm not aware of any air drops by Cal Fire or the military in the city on Day 1 and Day 2.”

    During the Cedar fire, then-Fire Chief Jeff Bowman circumvented Cal Fire and used Navy helicopters to drop water in and around Scripps Ranch.

    Cal Fire officials say things will be different when the next fire arrives.

    With Santa Ana winds in today's forecast, the California National Guard has six helicopters and crews on standby at Los Alamitos Army Air Field in Orange County, and Cal Fire has positioned spotters there and at other military bases.

    “There will be no aircraft on the ground for lack of managers,” Jarvis said.

    Tony Manolatos: (619) 542-4559; tony.manolatos@uniontrib.com
     
  23. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    That's what they said last time.

    Cal Fire is a joke. Seriously. What a pile of crap.
     
  24. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    word
     
  25. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    Pretty embarrassing when Florida has more stuff in one sock than California. Hopefully the Governator will step in when the ashes settle and square that crap away too.:flag:
     
  26. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    He needs to tell that CAL Fire dude .....

    "You fix it. I'll be baaack, Mr. Girlyman."
     
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  27. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    Works for me! :lol:

    Problem is that Arnold has to overcome about 80 years or so of inertia - time to attack it is starting a month or three after the current fires are out and after some freaking rain finally comes to the state. He WON'T forget it - his inbox will be full of mail from East County with little "reminders" on the organizational problems still existing in the CalFire bureaucracy.
     
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  28. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

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    He has a pen and a secretary to type an executive order.

    No idiot in the Assembly will try to block that. Fix it.
     
  29. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    At the very least, a copy of that article should be sent to his office :icon_evil:
     
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  30. Lightning's Girl

    Lightning's Girl Mod Chick =) Staff Member Moderator

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    I've been hearing that for 40 years, and I'm sure my parents and grandparents heard the same thing from the government every time their property was threatened by fire. Same old, same old........the powers that be always promise they'll do better next time, and still the fires rage every few years, and people keep getting burned out.

    I KNEW there was something I didn't miss about SoCal.:tdown:
     
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