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Scheme or mileage?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Buck Melanoma, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    These guys are pretty damn good at what they do, which is delivering stats.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/cornerbacks-a-glance-at-the-2011-numbers/

    Interesting view of Jammer. Surprising? Not if you were watching this year. The real question is posed in the thread title. Call it fence-straddling if you will, but I believe both were contributors.

    An even bigger question - does he have enough left to move to safety & be productive? I say yes. I've always felt that Jammer plays much better keeping the ball in front of him. Good, fundamentally sound tackler who could make Weddle look even better.
     
  2. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Apparently, Jammer had some personal issues this year that he said had an affect on his play. He said he will do what ever the team asks him to do. If that is play CB or Safety, he is open to either.

    Also, a couple weeks ago, Norv was asked about moving Jammer to safety, and he said he doesn't see Jammer ever moving to safety.
     
  3. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    You want to make it interesting?

    Here are the 2010 stats, from just one year ago under Ron Rivera...http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/20/cornerbacks-cover-snaps-count/
     
  4. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Anyone who's watch Jammer the last two years would have to admit he's not the player he once was. Still a good tackler, but he's always had hands of stone, and doesn't get many breakups.

    I know there was talk of him having personal issues this year, but he doesn't have the speed to keep up with the fast WRs anymore.

    I find it interesting that Norv is still adamant that Jammer is a CB, because he has to see the same stuff on tape that we do. Of course, he said nice things about Manusky before he got fired too. ;)
     
  5. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    i dont know why people think jammer would make a good SS. Maybe if he was playing in the NFL 10 years he would be good at it, but in this day of spread offenses and TEs that run 4.5's, he would make a terrible SS, especially with all these penalties that make big hits pretty much illegal, Jammer would become useless as a safety
     
  6. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Couldn't be worse than Gregory, right?
     
  7. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    Actually he could. Playing SS against a spread offense, you need have quickness and almost be like another nickle corner out there. I seriously doubt jammer has the speed and quickness to deal with some of these guys

    And plus, gregory wasnt that bad, the only knock on him is size. If he was in the 200lb range, with his speed, smarts and attitude, he would make a good SS, but at 165lbs (he is NOT 190lb like his listed weight says), hes way too small to compete
     
  8. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    If he was only 6' it would help. Being 5'9-5'10 is WAY too small to cover 6'4 TE's
     
  9. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    And a week or so after that Jammer was asked about it on a radio interview. He said that Norv probably gave that answer because he and Jammer have never even talked about the switch to S.
     
  10. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I heard about Norv saying that during that interview. Jammer went on to say that he may never move, but is willing.

    Here is the interview- http://www.xx1090sandiego.com/common/global_audio/40/46164.mp3
     
  11. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    To the topic question, it's a little of column A and a little of column B - but then I think you knew that already, Buck. Jammer's slowing down with age and going the way of guys like Al Harris, Terrance Newman, Troy Vincent, and so on. That said, like those guys (aside from Newman who I think is a year younger than Jammer, IIRC) he can prolong his career if played in a proper scheme fit which is... well... very obviously NOT was Manusky was implementing.

    Where age tends to affect speed the most is in the ability to go from the dead stop to getting up to speed. With that in mind, it makes/made absolutely zero sense to play Jammer ten yards off a guy and give the receiver those ten yards to get up to full speed before Jammer even really had a chance to flip his hips and get into a run versus a backpedal. Rivera seemed to grasp this and still played Jammer up on his man so that he could stick/jam the guy at the line and immediately turn and run with his assignment.

    We will need to - at some point - start looking for a successor and sooner rather than later because Cason's ceiling is as a #2 (and he's someone who just got worked when put in zone because he looked constantly confused by who was his assignment - he wanted to stick in man-to-man with the receiver he initially lined up over and you could see it in his play), Gilchrist is a wild card, though if we don't address a definitive option at S his future may be decided for him based off pure need and his ability to play the position (and to pair well with Weddle because he's a lot like Weddle in terms of skill set). And I'd love to think Shareece Wright can develop into a #1, but the safe bet says we're lucky if he turns out to be a guy who can supplant Hughes or maybe even Cason.

    Thing is... fix the pass-rush first, because I don't think we can really accurate gauge the quality of our DB's until we see them with at least a function pass-rush. No pass-rush is going to make even slightly above average DB's look bad in this modern pass-happy league. I also bring this up because CB is one of those positions where if you can justify trading up for the right prospect - though we really can't afford to do that this year (nor is there a CB I'd justify trading up for that won't likely go in the Top 5 - Claiborne) and the next two draft classes of CB's look to have both depth and at minimum of 2 guys with legitimate "shutdown corner" potential.
     
  12. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers pass rush made their crap CBs look good. And what happened Sunday? When Lebeau inexplicably dialed back the pass rush, the Steelers CBs were exposed for the crap they are.
    Don't get me wrong, Jammer stunk this year. And his speed has been tailing off for 3 years now, so it wasn't a surprise. A pass rush will help a lot. But clearly if 1 or more of Cason/Gilchrist/Wright ain't the guy, it would be logical to go CB yet again in 2013.
    But if it's AJ at the helm, we're screwed. List of AJs CB picks:

    Sammy Davis
    Drayton Florence
    Hanik Milligan
    Antonio Cromartie
    Antoine Cason
    DeJuan Tribble
    Brandon Hughes
    Marcus Gilchrist
    Shareece Wright
    :poop:
     
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  13. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    You want to see a well coached defense, watch the 49ers today. Love the press coverage, love the solid tackling, despite the fact that they can't afford to give up big plays because their offense can't keep up......they still have the balls to rush 5 and 6 on every play and play bump and run on the edge.

    And watch Fangio will be smart enough to systematically throw in some soft zones when needed, not just stick blindly to one scheme like that dumb piss fu*ker Manusky.


    Nobody can convince me the 49ers have more talented than us either. They were picking 7th last year for a reason.
     
  14. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Yep, the same reason we will be picking 18 instead of somewhere in the mid 20's, coaching
     
  15. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Agree. It's clear that coaching change has made a huge difference in SF.
    Statement of the obvious, I know, but it has some relation to the lack of coaching change here.
     
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  16. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Let me know when we get a penetrating DE like Justin Smith & a LB'er unit like Bowman, Brooks, Willis, & Haralson.

    Steve Wilks leaving could be a good thing.
     
  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Listen, I love Jammer but the proof is in the pudding..

    He just doesn't have what it takes anymore.. He's easily getting beat by faster receivers and he makes every QB look good.. I know the pass rush wasn't even sub-par the whole season, but people bashed Cason more than Jammer and I don't see Antoine's name anywhere in there.. I'd rather keep Antoine then trade or release him.. Gilchrist will be a better player once Jammer's contract is up in 2013.. I guess we can keep him around here for one more season but I'd rather see him as a no.2 corner and that's it..

    and he never lived up to his no.5 overall pick by the way..
     
  18. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    No defensive backfield can cover for over 4 plus seconds a snap. Scheme, what scheme? giving a receiver a 10 yard cushion sounds like an automatic first down to me, hell that's safety depth. It was more, run like hell boys and hope they don't catch the ball oh and by the way, watch for the tun. Jammer still has some years left in him and for those that don't think he do well at safety obviously don't understand how a great safety can cheat on the field or recognize the open spot or seam. Safeties have to be able to cover a lot of ground and read plays quickly, hence the name infers they are the last line of defense and have to be on the move.
     
  19. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It seems apparent that the 49ers defense looked OK last season due to their talent making up for their lack of coaching. A talented roster can make a bad coach look average (looking at you, Manusky). Which a coaching change, suddenly that talent looks much better..... even great.

    In our case, we had average talent on defense that looked better than it was under Rivera. That was due to both the special teams screwups that limited their time on the field, and Rivera's ability to mix and match schemes as needed. With Manusky, that poor schemes and inability to make proper in-game adjustments made the defense look even worse. The talent (especially generating pressure) is still not where it needs to be, but better coaching would've helped.

    This season was a clusterfuck of injuries to key players, Rivers going off the rails, and Manusky being exposed as a pretender. As bad as it was, there's still reason for fans to be optimistic that things can improve with some key additions, Rivers returning to form, and Pagano not wetting the bed.
     
  20. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Yep, the Steelers CBs showed everyone the importance of the pass rush. When LeBeau backed off, the Steelers CBs were exposed. If AJ can figure out how to figure out how to draft a decent every down OLB (or more unlikely, pick one up in FA), that would be a huge help. Barnes, Phillips, and someone good could kick ***. Would be nice if Liuget got some penetration--let's hope this offseason he carves into the learning curve a bit more. Martin needs to improve too.

    That's as optimistic as I get with AJ at the helm ;)
     
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  21. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Adding both a quality free agent ILB, and SS would really help. We don't need another Diggs or Sanders signing, we need some guys who you know will be both an upgrade and capable of playing a season. Too many off the street types populate this roster. We need young guys (with talent) stepping up, and quality vets that still have tread on their tires.
     
  22. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    ..and will provide leadership. Who the farg is going to motivate these guys? Spikes for now, but he needs some help judging by the letdowns we saw this year.
     
  23. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Spikes is the right type of locker room guy, but he needs his snaps to be managed. He was on the field too much, and it showed. TKO is light-years away from becoming another Cooper, but the reality is, he's been in the league a very long time.
     
  24. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    He'll retire when he's sees tape of that much arm waving ;)
     
  25. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    [​IMG]
     
  26. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't that be RR with the sledgehammer and AJ holding him back ;)
     
  27. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Yes, I suppose it should....... I'll just leave you with the clown pic, and then everyone's happy. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  28. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Someone like when we signed Foley and Godfrey
     

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