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So, what's the board's general consensus of the coaching staff at this juncture?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by HollywoodLeo, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    That's difficult to believe seeing that he was able to successfully switch gears from Orton to Tebow. At least where football is concerned.

    I was never a "Fire Norv!!" hothead. He perplexed me at times & I certainly wish that he had taken a harder stance against some of the FO decisions (although who really knows as a fan WHAT he did?), but I supported him until it was obviously time for change - period. I'll give McCoy a honeymoon too - nothing to be gained at this point by also declaring him a loser & wasted choice. Does that mean I won't question his decisions? Of course not. I'm just not inclined to lynch a man when the he's left with a ****** situation before giving him a chance to dig out.
     
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  2. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Yeah.... I just wanted to pull 1 decision and for me that one, while maybe not as game critical as say going for a 4th down, just showed me he isn't game managing the way a HC at this level needs to.

    I hope to F this sort of BS is down to him learning on the job, and at the same never ever forgetting that you cannot make these mistakes twice.
     
  3. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I agree with a lot of that…though when I got to the end I had to wonder if Fossil (50% + 50% + 50%) had helped with the math
    (if Norv deserves a 3 at 7-9, and McCoy gets a 5, then I guess McCoy will finish at either 11-5 or 12-4? I guess things are better!) :D
     
  4. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    There's still plenty of mistakes for him to make that I've never seen a coach make
     
  5. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Why not a 13-3?
     
  6. ETicket

    ETicket Well-Known Member

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    Good points. Interesting that they were ignored as the thread participants choose to dance exclusively with each other. I now leave before the twerking begins. :p
     
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  7. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Speaking only for myself, well, there were a 100 Charger-related things that weren't being discussed…
    so I'm not sure why that was a problem. And metta may be happy with the Rivers situation,
    but personally, I care a lot more about being 4-6 against the "easier" part of the schedule,
    than I do about stats in losing games. Lastly, well, that would fall into the category of when Mom taught
    you to hold your tongue if you can't say something nice: given my vehement and public damning
    of the two travesties of coaching (in Tennessee & Washington), how can I possibly nicely address
    "I still back his decisions against Tennessee and Washington" ?
     
  8. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Well let's be clear none of the RATIONAL fans are suggesting McCoy should be fired after this season, or saying we'd be better off with Norv. As said earlier it's probably 80% players, and 20% coaching.

    The reality is this defense is not talented, and Philip Rivers is massively underperforming in the 4th quarter. And part of that is O-line and WRs, another is that he's missing his targets, taking delay of game penalties, unnecessary sacks, fumbled snaps, and just looks scared that he's going to make a mistake in crunch time.
     
  9. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    I'd take Norv
     
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  10. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX Hall of Fame

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    RedZone problems imo can be corrected if we had more beef down in the trenches, we did this well against the Colts and Jags but haven't since and I think the injuries could be one of the reasons. Rivers has been doing well actually, he brought has back in the Wash game and we just couldn't seal the win. Had Allen not slipped the Miami game would have been a wrap. I really think all the lost though have not helped with his and the teams confidence. He really misses Floyd out there grabbing jump balls near the redzone. Health is one thing I hope and pray we get lucky with down the streatch and into next year. I imagine another year under McCoy and Rivers will be near surgical on field.

    After 10 games? Even if you're assessment of McCoy is complety true don't you think he deserves at the min of 2 years before we call for his head. I'm assume you're joking though as no one really wants the turkey neck back
     
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  11. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    If it were just losses, I'd say yeah. I know they were the end all for Lance but even if it were the play for punt and the no power formation goal line Offense fiasco, I'd also say yeah. The dumb schit this guy has regularly done makes me think there's more coming. What's weird is that he doesn't call plays, yet there is so much to point at. "No one" is a big mob and includes the "rational middle" but I think Norv Turner is a great coach, his guys always played hard, he was the best playcaller and he got a lot from a little. The only thing I found inexcusable was him allowing Dean and AJ control over the Hester, Tolbert, LT situation then being dead quiet as AJ continued to dismantle the team. But do I think this team would have at least two more wins with him right now ? Yes
     
  12. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    It's always easier to be critical when being on the outside looking in. On the goal line in the Skins game Rivers called the play from the keys the defense was showing, he was beat on his read give the Skins a bit of credit, there are two teams on the field.

    Whisenhunt, is calling the plays and this man has won a Lombardi and brought his own team to the big dance. He should know the strength of his team along with the weakness. The carousel of O-line the last two years is not conducive to wins, Norv paid for it.

    Y'alls gawd AJ, left this team in a bad way from poor decisions. His high horse reminds me of some in here who seem to sit on and know all the answers, after the fact. Only time will tell if McCoy is the right guy but it's way to early to come to that conclusion.
     
  13. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Actually, I think you may be being overly generous to McCoy's side, when you say there were two teams on the field that series

    True, but do we currently have that Whisenhunt,
    or this more current "Whizzer" ?

    Screen Shot 2013-11-22 at 5.13.43 PM.png
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=321209026
     
  14. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    The personnel meant there was no power formation available to Rivers but again, I don't include that in my critique of tMcCoy . I don't know about anyone else here, but I was done with AJ after the Hester trade-up and it only got worse after that. Though Norv deserves blame for being quiet about it, all of the losses fall first on AJ and almost zero on coaching...I give it a 90-10 and that's just because of the speed they got to the line with.
     
  15. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I'm not cutting anyone slack, what happened on that series cost the team a loss. Since I am not privy to the internal workings of the club I can't nail down just whose fault it is.
     
  16. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    We agree that that awful series cost the team a loss.
    We agree that no one gets to shirk their responsibility, regardless of resume.
    We agree that we--as fans--are not privy to exactly how that clusterfunk happened…

    ...and I add that McCoy repeatedly stressing that "second guessing" is inherently bad and will not be done
    is an additional problem.
     
  17. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Might the fault lie higher up?
     
  18. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Only in the cone of silence 86. It's now alive and well in San Diego.
     
  19. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't aware Ken Whizenhunt split into two different people. Very impressive. He should teach our WRs that, it'd be an innovative way of getting open.
     
  20. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    You have proof that Tebow was involved?

    Pope Francis?!?

    I'm sure you can't pin this on Jesus!

    Screen Shot 2013-11-22 at 9.15.04 PM.png
     
  21. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I'm pretty sure that if we can:

    constantly refer to Norv's inexcusable final year (.4375 winning percentage) :oops:
    and ignore his first 5 years (.6125 winning percentage) :whistling:

    that we can afford the Whizzer similar scrutiny :rolleyes:

    during the current (.4000 winning percentage) era :tdown:

    Screen Shot 2013-11-22 at 9.39.08 PM.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
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  22. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Thank goodness we're not staring Ryan Lindley and the worst O-line in the NFL or this may be the first valid argument you've ever made. We'll continue to wait...
     
  23. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Proven fact: Five out of four people struggle with math. :tdown:
     
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  24. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    As with Norv, was this the result of the HC or what he had to work with? AJ pulled the rug out from underneath Norv. I don't know if Norv had a say in personnel decisions and was hired under the premiss to keep his trap shut. Norv left Dego when Marty was hired and that may have been his undoing. I don't think Norv has ever had a fair shake at any of his HC stops, it seems there was always someone short changing him out on the field.
     
  25. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    With Norv, for me the reason I didn't like him is because he underachieved with the quality of team that he inherited. He took over a team ready to win now and he didn't get it done. Part of that is down to AJ Smith, but if we judge both as a package, they had a great team and they underachieved.

    With TT & McCoy, they took over the broken down pieces after the failure of the previous regime. We knew from the get go that this isn't a team capable of winning right now. At best, it was a wildcard contender this season, and then a team being rebuilt for the purpose of future contention. It doesn't currently possess the depth to overcome the injuries we have suffered, and as the season has gone on, this has become more evident.
    All in all, I'm pleased with them so far, I definitely think they are making steps in the right direction, they had a good draft got a couple of good free agent pickups, and seem to have the team going in the right direction for the future.
     
  26. Cheapseats

    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

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    Here is what I feel the current coaching staff was facing when they were hired: Talent-wise the cupboard isn't bare, but it is pretty thin and there wasn't a lot of cap space available to rebuild this roster. Older vets were let go, in some cases because we couldn't compete with offers from other teams.

    All that being said, I think the coaching staff had done a decent job with what they have to work with, especially the O-line coach. The fact that after 10 games Rivers isn't in a body cast is a testament to our "plug and play" O-line. Overall, mistakes have been made and many play calls have been maddening head scratchers, but they have been in every game this season except the Raiders game. I believe the team is heading in the right direction, but there is lots of room for improvement. This year, I expect they will be within a game of .500 at season's end. Next year...I will have my sights set higher!
     
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  27. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    No doubt Norv inherited a good team, not the best in the league, and I think his 32-16 record those first
    three years is pretty indicative of the (mostly) quality players he had. So I'm not sure what people mean when
    they say he "underachieved." Obviously we all wanted a Super Bowl win, but history shows that even the best team
    in the league usually doesn't win the Super Bowl…and I think Norv's best shot at it in '09 was sabotaged by
    Nate's horrible day. So I think Norv's results with that good team were good…as most coaches' probably would've been.

    As the roster declined, so did Norv's record, to 24-24 over the final 3 seasons: An average team & average results.

    I don't think the '13 team is significantly different in talent from Norv's worst year, 2012, so I definitely don't
    share your opinion that, through the "easy" part of the '13 schedule "I'm pleased with them so far" at 4-6,
    including numerous inexcusable coaching blunders.

    I do suspect some moving of the goalposts from many in the fan base: We want things to be going better,
    so many of us (well, not me) say they are. Maybe I'm wrong: maybe there were dozens of posters on here in the
    last few years who were saying: "Norv is underachieving with his recent .500 records, and I'd be happy if we
    brought in someone who had lower win totals with this club." I'm willing to go back and look for those posts…but…

    At any rate, what's done is done, I didn't shed tear over Norv's departure, and, like most, I wish for better coaching
    and results from Whizzer & McCoy. But is what I'm seeing making me happy? No. Optimistic? No.
     
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  28. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Norv didnt know how to use woodhead and fluker properly
     
  29. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Sorry Lance, but this is silly at best. I mean I get it, I honestly do. There are some that feel if people dont share their views and opinions there must be some conspiracy or mass plot to explain it. But you seem to feel that if someone is not marching down to Chargers park with a pitchfork and torch that they must be complacent.

    Is that how you operate in real life? Do you hire someone and then fire them because they don't instantly perform to your expectations? Well perhaps you do, but to be frank McCoy is performing to expectations.

    Norv's first team is not equivalent to McCoy's first team. Can any Chargers fan say they expected the playoffs this season? If they did, I have some ocean front property is Colorado to sell them. McCoy is a first year head coach and he is making first year mistakes. Yes he doesn't give a lot of info in post game pressers, most coaches don't.

    That said, I haven't seen any of the blind following you and a few other equate to Chargers fan's acceptance of McCoy. In fact McCoy and crew have taken more criticism than Norv did his first season here. If anyone is looking at the facts and saying "I want them to the <this> so they are <this>" from my perspective it is those pining for Norv and bashing the current staff for everything no matter how big or small. You/they do not measure both coaching staffs with the same device.

    So like Norv, miss Norv, but in the end Norv is gone. You, Me, Acee, the whole damn fan base inst going to change that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
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  30. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Because comparing an offensive coordinator to a head coach makes perfect sense.
     

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