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So ... who's pissed about our draft position now?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Riff Raff, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    If your definition of success is 14-2 and one and done then I'm forced to question if the best is truly what you want.
     
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  2. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The regular season is just a 16 game preseason. There are no points for having the best record. A Lombardi is what it's all about.
     
  3. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I'd go a step further and say that the 2006 team wasn't nearly as impressive as that 14-2 record suggests.

    The team had been mediocre in '05 and was expected to be the same in '06.
    ESPN power rankings had Chargers at #17 in preseason, #16 Week one…can't get any more mediocre than that.

    The two losses came relatively early: the team was 2-1 and 4-2…NOBODY was looking at this as a team to be feared.
    My impression, from watching many, many seasons, is that when a team comes out like the Chiefs did this year,
    9-0, they're the talk of the league, and a giant bullseye for everyone they play. Conversely, if a team drops
    even one of their first couple of games, they can kind of sneak up on people.

    Definitely flying under the league's radar, the Chargers finished with a very unexpected 10 game streak,
    but they were not a dominating team...7 of those were by 8 points or less.
    And then there was the one-and-done, at home, in a playoff game they had dominated.
    There's lots of seasons I remember more fondly than 2006.
     
  4. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I still firmly believe the 11-5 2007 team was a much better team than that over-hyped (by Charger fans) 14-2 2006 team.
     
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  5. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    No i dont want to be one and done. But on our defense we have no one who strikes fear into the hearts of the opposing teams. Aka like merriman. I want this team to get a true pass rusher, im just looking for improvement. Always am. The 06 team might have bee over hyped. But our D was legit. And we had one of the most dominant running backs. And dont gt me wrong im cheering i the playoffs. But if we lose, then we lt for a orst draft pick.wed still be able to get . Good cb. But nix will be gon. beasley will be, and mst likely michael sam.
     
  6. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    See. There's your problem. You're still worried about what other people think instead of just looking at the team and it's ability to win.

    You're looking for improvement?

    We missed the playoffs the last 3 years in a row and now we're in it having already won one game in it.

    As for the draft pick, I don't care. The difference between pick 18 (what we would have had after a loss in week 17) and pick 25 (where we're at if we lose Sunday) isn't so vital that it's worth being pissed about actually making the playoffs and winning some of them.

    You're undervaluing the value of playoff experience and good drafting versus drafting first.
     
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  7. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    I understand the value of both. But when i Played football in high-school i refused to lose. I would rather die on the field and win. then live and lose. I also remember the 98 draft where we got leaf instead of manning cause of win. I wanna win. But if you don win Its kind of . WaSte when your team has holes. Cb, olb, nt, lt, rg i just want whats best for the team.
     
  8. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Your playing experience isn't very relevant because we're discussing the personnel side of the game and not the on-the-field side. It'd be more relevant if you had GMing experience.

    Also, the 98 draft doesn't compare. I said earlier in the thread the only time the lose-to-win-a-better-draft strategy has any amount of merit is if you could be in line for a franchise QB at the top of the draft....which could have been the case in the 1997 season.

    What you're talking about here is the difference between 18 and 25 (at this point). Do you really think there's a game changing player of Peyton Manning's caliber (that comes with the relative certainty that he did) that's going to surely fall to 18 but not to 25?
     
  9. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    The biggest game changer in the draft might go before that. Darqueeze dennard is the best player in te draft. As of pass rush i like michael sam. If we can get any one of those. Ill eat my crow.
     
  10. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Another draft genius .... wonder how many draw a paycheck for their "expertise"?
     
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  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Biggest game changers might not. How many rookies taken in the first draft are a bust? To worry about draft position is like worrying about a meteor wiping out the earth, nothing you can do... If you let that crap twist your knickers you are going to be unhappy about everything. Your choice of course.
     
  12. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Would it matter if they did? I know a lot of draft beatnicks here who love to meddle at the draft. Some will cast aspersions on those who DO draw paychecks for their thoughts in the draft, so it seems that it doesn't matter if a pay check is drawn or not... right? ;)

    Just bustin your chops in a good natured manner...
     
  13. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    He might or he might not.

    I don't know how many drafts you've followed in your early experience in following this sport, but year after year the draft proves that not every "can't miss prospect" ends up actually being the best NFL player at his position.

    At the end of the day I prefer success (even if it's not the bottom-line success) over failure.
     
  14. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    Is failure not losing?? Whether u go winless or 14-2 if u dont win the Superbowl. Its the same thing u still lost.
    I follow the draft religiously. Players ive wanted.vontaze burfict
    Janoris Jenkins.
    Kendall reyes.
    Star loutulelli.
    J. Jerrigan.
    Jarius byrd
    Ryan mathews
    Manti teo
    Keenan allen.
    Clay mathews.
     
  15. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    KC has no dearth of first round picks on their team... Still no lombardi...

    Just sayin...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
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  16. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I do think its funny when people suggest they watched a lot of tape on a player, when all they did was watch a youtube highlight reel then base their criteria off that.

    I'll admit I love the NFL draft and think its exciting (the first day, and the 2nd day when the Chargers are on the clock)
    but I base my opinion off of what I see. Just like player A might be better but player B (who is just as athletic and talented) is more fun and exciting to watch so IMO player B is better.

    There is a ton of talent in this class just as there was last year and the year before, players will continue to soil there names, scouts will continue to suggest they didn't like what they saw to stray attention away, and good players will continue to fall while fast, explosive players will continue to rise.

    Personally the fall of Roby was a gift for us, he was looking like the best shutdown corner in college, to getting suspended and getting hurt which in return hurt his stock. He's still my horse in the race when people start showing "mockdraft favorites"
     
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  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    That's where you're wrong.

     
  18. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Power rankings don't mean much neither does victory margin when your coach plays martyball. 06 team had better talent than 07 (slight but they were also injury free) and some boring coordinators. They did well because they were stacked and weren't playing a 1st place schedule. They lost in the playoffs because of their coach.
     
  19. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    For those that say that the regular season is just preseason ans it doesn't really matter I ask you this: was the 1-15 season as enjoyable as the 94 season or the 07 season? Or if you don't care about playoff wins if they don't lead to a superbowl win, did you not enjoy the 82 win at miami or the 94 win at pittsburgh or the 07 win at indy
     
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  20. Lightning_Dynasty

    Lightning_Dynasty Well-Known Member

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    As a 21 year old Charger fan who has now been following the Bolts for 13 years (as much as you can follow a team when you're 8-12 years old) I understand what '93 is saying, even if I don't fully agree with it.

    Living here in Texas, whenever the Bolts beat the Cowboys, or I criticize Jerry Jones, I always hear the same thing, "When was the last time the Chargers won anything?" During Football season I really hear it on a weekly basis, and it's gotten beyond aggravating to me. My friends, who are all my age for the most) where only 3 the last time the Cowboys did anything, but they don't care about that. And, considering I only know one other Charger fan down here, and we're never able to watch the games together, it gets difficult. It's constant mocking, and it would be so nice for it to stop. Hell, it would be beyond nice, it be an effing miracle. (Though I know it would then become "how many rings do the Chargers have?-- though that's easier to mitigate.)

    I have the frustration of never being able to capitalize with this talented team over the past decade. But I also have a frustration of never being able to capitalize in the past. In the SB against the Niners, with Air Coryell. Since no one in my family is a Bolts fan, I went bac myself and found as much old game footage as I could, and I watched it all, and I felt the frustration that all of you who have been fans much, much longer than I felt. I can't imagine how it must be if you've been a fan since the Coryell days or before.

    I sympathize with both sides, but it's impossible to feel bad for myself, and '93. We've had it pretty good. And besides, we all suffered through Norv together.
     
  21. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    That is NOT all the story from that still painful 2006 PO loss and you know it just as much as most of us do, but your demagoguery has set in yet again!

    4- Did Marty knot up and run on the field like a moron? Check

    3- Did Drayton Florence get called for a crucial PF 15 yarder? Check

    2- Did Cam Cameron keep LT limited to a mere few carries (3?) in the 2nd half? Check

    1- Did Marlon McMee cost us the game by way of a forced fumble after an INT of Brady on 4th down? Check
     
  22. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Strange that Marty never got the most out of his players in the playoffs. Sarcasm aside, is there any other coach with his ability to get multiple teams to the playoffs and then choke?
     
  23. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    No, he is still the supreme PO loser, but he's definitely wishing Andy Reid a long life and a prosperous NFL career :D
     
  24. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I get what he's saying too, I just don't fully agree with it.

    He's letting his desire to actually see this team win a Super Bowl (Something we all want to see) cloud his judgment and ruin what should otherwise be a worthwhile experience.

    At the end of the day this is just sports. If you care most about a Super Bowl and equate years like 2007 and this one should we lose before the SB to being no different than years like the 1 win season then you're in it for all the wrong reasons.

    If you're trying to judge your team based on how you want others to view it then what's the point? Are you in this for your enjoyment or theirs?

    And I'm not just saying this as some wannabe know it all. I'm saying this from personal experience because I was pretty much just like '93 when I was younger.
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Andy Reid?
     
  26. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Were you to distance yourself from insane modern fans, Norv's years were the best outside Sid's and Bobby's. Also, Coryell did not go to the Super Bowl, that was Bobby Ross.
     
  27. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure he was referring to two different eras there, citing the SB against the Niners and "with Air Coryell" as two different examples of not being able to capitalize. Not In the Super Bowl against the Niners with Air Coryell.

    The comma in his sentence makes all the difference.
     
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  28. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    He ran onto the field, losing the game in '04--not '06
    His known '06 travesties were as follows...
    1- 4th an 11 in long field goal range, in the first quarter, in a tie game....went for it. (the discussion should end here but it never does)

    2-was too scared to make an easy challenge
    3- at the end of the game (with the ref violating impartiality by actually pleading for him not to do it), he challenged a play and lost a time-out
    4- at the end of the game, he was scared to run another play and made a field goal attempt longer than what he wouldn't attempt in the the no-pressure setting of the tie first quarter.
    5-was heard by several players asking an assistant to "calm him down"
    6- (the worst) Didn't notice or didn't care or didn't have authority to override the OC's decision to bench the number one receiver the entire game (not one snap).

    The head coach lost that game as much as a head coach not calling plays can lose a game. That kids growing up under this time remember Norv as the dark years is telling of San Diego identity politics.
     
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  29. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    What are we fighting about now?
     
  30. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Marty and Norv revisionist history lessons again.
     

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