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Stadium cost now double '02 estimate, team says

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by ChargerRay, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20070701-9999-1m1charcost.html

     
  2. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    Have you ever been to the Q? It's a friggin' dump.
    By the time all these jackasses get off their butts and DO SOMETHING about this, it's gona cost twice as much as it does now.

    Every day without a deal goes by is one more day closer to seeing the Charger leave town. The city/county's handling of this issue makes me friggin' sick.
     
  3. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    When you see it, you'll know. It's in bad shape, and IMO, needs to be torn town and we need another stadium, ESP. for the whole Super Bowls in SD factor. It's a frackin no brainer in my book.
     
  4. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    The Murph needs to go. :yes:

    It is ashame a city as dynamic as San Diego can not foster the leadership to retain the Chargers.

    Until we see a Joint Powers Authority (JPA) formed, the Chargers are out of here.

    Fans either enjoy it now or say goodbye. :helm1:
     
  5. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    It's a rather complicated question to answer...

    Basically, the Chargers have been told by the city of San Diego that they can expect no help. There was a big pension scandal and that has the city reeling from the debt. So, to the city, that is more important than dealing with the Chargers.

    But, Oceanside (in North SD County) and Chula Vista (in South SD County) have shown interest. This season is nearly sold out, including the pre-season games. First time that's happened and this after the season ticket prices WENT UP over 20%.

    I'm confident a deal will be done. It will just take time.
     
  6. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    I think they call that inflation. Thanks king bush and ben bernakey. Flooding the world market with u.s. currency. No wonder everything costs twice as much now. Got to pay off china and japan for their buying our u.s. bucks. At least thats what I've read. And its supposedly supposed to get far worse. As long as americans can keep even with the mounting debt were fine. But from what I've been reading thats nearly impossible soon.
     
  7. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    I do not see it happening here. There is no sense of urgency anywhere from anybody.

    None.
     
  8. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well, neither of us can say **** is/isn't getting done. We're just not being told if it is/isn't.
     
  9. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    That is a good point..

    I kind of think the nfl really wants a super bowl quality stadium someplace in SoCal. I myself feel this has more to do where the nfl wants a new stadium rather than where the chargers want to be.
     
  10. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    If the Chargers don't have an agreement with a SD County city by Jan/Feb '08, then most likely time will run out to get something on a local ballot by Nov. '08.

    Then we'll see the Chargers start looking beyond the San Diego County boundaries.
     
  11. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    Sadly, so do I.
     
  12. Thumper

    Thumper WHS

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    I keep hearing that the Q is a dump. It's fine for the regular fan. It just doesn't have the luxury boxes and amenities that the corporate ****s want. That's also the reason the NFL won't have another Super Bowl in SD until there is a new stadium.
     
  13. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    I used to think that too ..... until I attended two Chargers games (2003 preseason, 2004 regular season opener) at Reliant Stadium in Houston.

    Those new stadiums are PALACES for the regular fan. Great site lines, seating closer to the field, open concourses so you can even see through to the action on the field while standing in line for a soda. More restrooms .....

    The Q has run its course. It's time for a new play pen.
     
  14. PhilipRivers#1

    PhilipRivers#1 BoltTalker

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    Its all about the corporate sky boxes. Owners get to keep ALL money paid by corporations. Sadly, this is where the big money is.

    They don't have to share any of it with the rest of the league.
     
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  15. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    I think it will get done in Chula Vista, Oceanside or any other place in San Diego county that might step up.

    San Antonio... Not happening.
    Portland... Not happening.
    LA... IF (Big If) NFL ever comes back to LA, I'll give it alteast 15 years.

    Best thing Spanos has going for him is that he's the only NFL team in Southern California and it might stay that way forever!
     
  16. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    If not SD, I'm willing to bet Anaheim. Spanos has big ties to the city's politicians and there is more than enough space next to the Angel's ball park. If you look at it from the Bolts perspective, they'd be dipping into three paying markets by locating in Anaheim.

    Not too shabby.....from their perspective. :unsure:
     
  17. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

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    Al Davis just lost his lawsuit against the NFL to build a stadium in LA so this could get interesting.
     
  18. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    San Diego just sold a downtown office building at a record price
    ($221 million).

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20070703-9999-1b3offices.html

    The Chargers are looking at stadium financing via this route (commericial construction) or a combo village concept in Oceanside.
     
  19. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Is this what you are refering too?
    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=231846


    California high court ends Raiders lawsuit

    Posted: July 2, 2007

    SAN FRANCISCO -- The Oakland Raiders lost their case in California's top court Monday after contending in a lawsuit that the NFL sabotaged the team's effort to build a stadium at Hollywood Park in Los Angeles.

    The case dates back more than 20 years when Raiders managing partner Al Davis accused the league of purposely not doing enough to help the team move from the antiquated Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum to a new stadium complete with revenue-generating luxury suites.



    If so, it doesn't sound like this case had anything to do with NFL returning to LA or if it was anything stopping plans for a new stadium in LA
     
  20. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/05/perspective/16_54_236_30_07.txt

    Stadium doesn't guarantee economic gains

    By: LEONARD GILROY AND SAM STALEY - Commentary

    If the coin toss goes Oceanside's way, voters may be faced with the difficult decision on whether or not to welcome a new San Diego Chargers stadium on the 70-plus-acre site of the Center City Golf Course. While the Chargers' pitch for a privately financed stadium and office development may sound seductive, the devil is always in the details, and taxpayers need to ask some important questions before signing off.

    Even if the stadium proposal would not involve direct public expenditures, tax hikes or bond issues, taxpayers need to be on the lookout for other sneaky subsidies. Would the golf course land be sold to the stadium developer at fair market value, or would the city sell it at a discount as an incentive? Would the private sector also finance the major road, water and other urban services needed to support the stadium development, or would these costs be subsidized by taxpayers? So far, the Chargers have indicated they and a private partner will pony up the capital to make it happen and they should be held to those commitments.

    But this is only one element of the deal, particularly in an area of the county experiencing sky-high housing prices and economic growth. Public officials owe it to taxpayers to make clear the big-picture trade-offs involved with a stadium deal. What potential uses of that land would the city be giving up in exchange for the Chargers stadium, and what's the best use for the city's longer-term economic development?


    At first glance, a sports stadium seems like an economic boon. In truth, they are, at best, minor economic players in a city's economic health. More than 20 years of academic research has failed to find a significant relationship between an investment in a sports stadium and significant job or income growth. In a 2000 article in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, researchers from Smith College and Vanderbilt University found that "independent work on the economic impact of stadiums and arenas has uniformly found that there is no correlation between sports facility construction and economic development."

    In fact, stadiums can actually divert spending away from local businesses and increase expenditures on public safety and other city services. Other research has shown that stadiums inject very little new money into a city's economy; rather, they reshuffle the jobs and money already there.

    Perhaps a more important issue concerns alternative uses for the land. A large tract of prime urban land a mile from the ocean represents a tremendous development opportunity. Housing, office and retail uses may be a much better long-term investment for the city since they are better integrated into the existing urban fabric. Housing and office space has a much longer economic "shelf life," and is easier to renovate than sports stadiums.

    Even though the Chargers' proposal may sound appealing today, the track record of fickle sports teams hungry for newer, more modern facilities isn't something to bank on. Pro sports teams have gotten particularly adept at holding cities hostage if projected stadium revenues don't pan out, threatening to set up shop elsewhere unless they receive public subsidies. It's entirely possible that Oceanside could face this five or 10 years down the road when another city, like Los Angeles, for example, offers a better deal. Worse, if the Chargers were to leave in a decade or two, Oceanside would be left with an urban dinosaur that would be costly and difficult to redevelop. Oceanside should consider carefully the economic impact of the soon-to-be-empty Qualcomm stadium.

    Mark Fabiani, the Chargers' special counsel and lead negotiator, has said the team wants to "put responsibility on the private sector for the stadium, infrastructure and everything else that is needed to make the stadium work." Oceanside and San Diego County should take him on his word, and help make it happen, without public subsidy.

    You did not say wrote on Jun 30, 2007 11:37 PM:

    " that we have the right to vote on this. Thanks to an ordinance passed by the hard work of Marvin Bledsoe, any use of a public park will require a 50% plus 1 vote of the voters. Thank you Marvin for your foresight. I look forward to seeing if Fabiani and crew will be willing to have the people decide. "

    Sam wrote on Jul 1, 2007 8:42 AM:

    " Build it and they will come! Look at what's occured in the east village in S D. The most beautiful renovation of a downtown area that was before filled with bars,hookers,bums,and crime. It's high class and high dollar now. San Diego wants to throw a diamond in the rough (the Chargers and the stadium)into a trash can. It's time for Oceanside to see what the SD cannot see. Time for Oceanside to see what Glendale Arizona was able to see. Redevelopment, jobs, an increased tax revenue and tax base, increased property values, ect. If Oceanside approaches this properly they can add on percentages to the building fees, permits, the prices the patrons will pay for tickets, parking, hotel rooms, food and drink, taxi and milo service, renatl car fees, you name it... Think about how the city can profit and then use those dollars to benefit the citizens of Oceanside with enhanced services. "

    Rick K wrote on Jul 1, 2007 10:37 AM:

    " Thank you, Thank you, Thank you North County Times for doing an excellent article. Hopefuly this wakes up some of the Oceanside residents who are Rah, Rah Charger fans thinking this stadium is going to bring Oceanside around. Oceanside is turning Around and when the time shares and the hotel at the pier are done our town will be the Hot Spot for tourists. For you Rah, Rahs look at the stadium ugly isnt't it? Is that what you want less than a mile from our beautiful beaches. Is that going to be the welcoming mat for our transforming city? Before you Rah, Rahs get too excited about the Chargers being in your backyard do a little investigation of how Al Davis and the Raiders ripped off both the City of Los Angeles for 4 million(plus court costs) and the City of Irwindale for 10 million plus. Goat Hill is all beachview property less than a mile from the beach. And our city will give them 75+ acres of some of the most valuable property in Oceanside. That property if it were not parkland is worth well over the 500 million that the city of San Diego wants to charge Spanos and his boys. But Spanos and Fabiani wants the Qualcom land for free. San Diego is not that stupid why are our little minor league players in our city that stupid. "

    Baloney! wrote on Jul 1, 2007 10:49 AM:

    " Sports stadiums NEVER make money for the host city. And besides, the Chargers are already signalling that they want the land for free or for a $1 a year. To me that is a public give away and we should not stand for it! The stadium is too big for this site. Traffic is already a nightmare. This is total baloney. Again, stadiums NEVER make money for the host city. They merely line the greedy owners' pockets with gold while cities struggle to keep up with maintenance agreements, providing safety services, parking services, and other 'hidden' infrastructure costs. "

    Loma A. wrote on Jul 1, 2007 10:57 AM:

    " In case no one noticed, this is parkland and dedicated open space. We knew this when we bought our homes and we will fight like mad to keep this buffer to the freeway from being developed. Traffic and noise would kill our quiet neighborhoods and we would lose our quality of life. C'mon neighbors. You wouldn't want to lose your open space in your neighborhood would you? "

    Sam wrote on Jul 1, 2007 11:38 AM:

    " Rick K... Who do you think will be filling up those hotel rooms at the beach? Fans coming to see the games, that's who. They'll fly in on Thursdays, spend the weekend in Oceanside in the hotels, and doing their dining and shopping in Oceanside filling up the local shops cash drawers. .... Oh yes, spending all their $$$ in Oceanside. If someone wants to go to the beach they go to Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, OB, PB, or Del Mar... When someone wants to go to the beach, no one says, "Hey lets go to Oceanside beach." All oceanside has now on the hill is an underused and money drainging golf course.. A stadium with fancy offices and shops (paid for of course by the Chargers and their developers) will only benefit Oceanside. Give them the land, let them develope it, but the City keeps the Deed. The best way to go! "

    Sam ? wrote on Jul 1, 2007 12:23 PM:

    " Rick K response to sam. This is not L.A. and it is not Orange County. I guess that is where you probably came from and want the same crowds and traffic that they have. Why don't you move back to the big city if thats the type environment that you like. "

    Andrew wrote on Jul 1, 2007 1:45 PM:

    " Let's face it. Oceanside will become as crowded as Orange County, Solana Beach, Encinatas and all the other beachfront communities in Southern California sooner rather then later, there's no where else for people to move. We may as well have the Chargers bring in the economic development to help pay for it, AND boost civic pride by bringing in the Chargers! "

    Dirk wrote on Jul 1, 2007 1:54 PM:

    " Are people still talking about this? Its a con and yesterdays news. "

    Civic Pride? wrote on Jul 1, 2007 3:25 PM:

    " Exactly how will a private football stadium boost civic pride? ".......................
     

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