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Steve Williams vs Jason Verrett

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by ssnake86, Apr 30, 2014.

  1. ssnake86

    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    So while reviewing our 6th round pick from last year, it accrued to me that these two players are very similar as far as measurable goes. They are both the same height and similar weight.(Williams might even be .5in taller and 8 pounds lighter). They produced very similar combine results with Williams being about the same or a little bit better. Williams officially ran a 4.34 at the combine, Verrett I think was a 4.38. Williams had a 40.5in Vertical Jump, Verrett was 1 inch less at 39.5 at his pro day, did 39" at the combine according to nfldraftscout.com. One player went to TCU another went to Cal.

    I don't remember why Williams was so over looked. Saying he had a great combine showing would be an understatment, and I remember he was hand timed in the 4.20's and people were surprised, but still didn't put that much thought into it. Then when we drafted him in the 6th some were still surprised. Don't know why. Bad tape?

    On paper it seems like Williams has a slight edge. We snagged Williams in the 6th round. I'm sure Verrett has a shown a lot more on tape, but I thought I would point out the similarities, and ask why should we spend a 1st round pick on a player, when have Williams who hasn't even got a chance to prove himself yet? Williams is known to only be a slot CB. Originally that is what Verrett was projected at in the NFL until he had a 39.5in Vert and a great overall showing at the combine, and then people started to focus on his tape even more. Then people started saying well he could play on the outside as well and compared him to Brent Grimes. Is Brent Grimes worth a 1st round pick if the draft was re done today? He's hit his ceiling at this point and had a good year. His measurables didn't even compare to either of these two.

    Still Williams jumped even higher. You need a lot more than just jumping ability to play on the outside. You need physical strength, and its a lot easier to swat as something coming in if you already have the height, than time a jump and reach maximum peak height right when the ball is there. The truth is Verrett still may be better suited as a slot corner, just as Williams. Id rather see us take a chance on Roby(Roby is 2.5in taller then Varrett, that is signifigant), and see how a secondary shakes out will him and Williams, and Wright together.

    I admit I haven't studied either of these players tape. So I was hoping with someone with more knowledge would weigh in.
     
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  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Largely because Cal was terrible and he was short.
     
  3. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    What makes Verrett so intriguing is his instincts and awareness, his ability to cover the WR while knowing where the QB is looking to throw. Verrett also has the skill set where if he gets caught sleeping he has the quickness and ability to recover. where as one of the biggest knocks on Fuller is he tends to get caught with the head fakes quite often

    I think Roby has the best physical traits out of the the 3, but last year he seemed to lack confidence which is one of the most important traits a CB or anyone for that matter needs to posses outside of speed and athleticism. Now I agree if Williams (who actually showed better numbers in every aspect) can be the same type of player that Verrett can be, why spend a high pick let alone 1st on the same type of guy.

    I do know one thing, You put Verretts mentality and Roby's athleticism you'd have yourself one hell of a player
     
  4. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I said last year that if Williams was two inches taller he'd be a day 1-2 pick. Verrett and Williams have incredibly similar skill/mind sets and are both 'short' by CB standards. I think the team could do far worse than have those two in the DB group....oh wait we already have done worse when we had neither.
     
  5. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    You seem to give little value to their tape (which is, you know, how they actually played football in college) and too much to their combine performance and measurables
     
  6. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me of the comparison i made several years ago about Mike Williams and Vincent Jackson. Williams was widely considered a top 15 pick while Jackson was considered a project. It was easy to see why. Williams dominated at USC while Jackson starred at Northern Colorado. But physically, Jackson had Williams beat in ever category. He was bigger, taller, faster, quicker and more athletic with bigger hands.
     
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  7. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Tape certainly matters. But it can be difficult to assess an individual player who is on a mediocre unit or receives inferior coaching. The difference between a great and average season for a college CB can be the quality of the players up front. I don't think Williams had too many struggles in college. He just didn't shine the way Verrett did.
     
  8. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    I watch very little college football, <i don't remember seeing any of the two, I was just commenting on the fact that he asked what's the difference between the two if both have the same measurables and not giving much weight to their tape
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    VJ also had suspect hands coming out of Northern Colorado that, if folks recall, it took us his rookie season plus a little to actually coach out of him. That's why I feel like the folks jumping quickly to compare Mike Evans to VJax are doing a bit of a disservice. Prospect-to-prospect the only thing alike are their builds and jumping ability. Evans plucks the ball out of the air now, coming out of college, Jackson had to be taught that. VJax was also a burner, and while Evans does do a better job getting separation than his timed speed indicates, he doesn't have that 3rd gear that VJ had after catch - still hard to bring down because of his size and that he knows how to make it difficult to bring him down when you just wrap and drag, but he's not going to pull away from guys running with the ball the way Jackson could.
     
  10. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Williams was a 5th round pick and he ran a 4.42. He can't touch Verrett in terms of coverage ability, especially as relates to ball skills.

    The comparison is obvious and I think a little lazy. Verrett is a way better prospect.
     
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  11. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    thats not entirely true. Williams had no one on that defence so of course he didnt shine like verrett. Verrett played at tcu on a way better team. This could go either way. Fact of the matter is verrett nor williams is a number 1 or number2. Standing under 5 10 theyre not going to cove d thomas and d bowe who theyll face 4 times together. Darrell green is the only true short corner that could be a 1 or 2. The league is to big now. Its hard enough for someone like revis to jump with c johnson vj d bowe and the other giants. I like verrett but i wouldnt pick a midget with our first. We got williams in the 5th who showed great instincts. If were going for cbs in this draft look at p gaines, ej gaines, b roby, k fuller v hampton,b breeland. Those are the best ones for our scheme need and talent.
     
  12. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Who has Verrett had that's so great? Cal puts a lot of good players into the league. And I'm talking about what they did, not what their teammates did.

    And why do you have to be tall to be a #1? Before he got hurt, Lardarius Webb went a whole season without allowing a touchdown. Grimes was one of the top corners in all of football last year. Flowers has been a good #1 for years. Finnegan was a legit #1 for several seasons. Barber and Winfield were awesome forever. Revis still shuts guys down when allowed to man up, and the league is no bigger now than it was a couple seasons ago when he was completely erasing everyone he faced not named Stevie Johnson. What you're espousing is a myth.

    On film, Verrett is a much better player than Williams. Doesn't mean I don't like Williams-- I do. But Verrett is a legitimate first round talent. Williams was a 5th rounder who maybe slipped a round past where he ought to have gone.
     
  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Also, that Cal defense wasn't devoid of talent. They were just disorganized and poorly coached AF. There are easily 3-4 desirable Golden Bears in this class, depending on how one grades Deandre Coleman's selfishness.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
     
  14. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    what your team does around you helps alot. Pass rush forcing bad throws, good safeties that make it hard to go deep, alot factors into the tape u see. And u dont gave to be tall to be a number 1, but being 5 ft 10 and above helps. I have no problem with verrett but would u put him at the one and expect him to hold d thomas who has 6 and some odd ihches on him who ran a blazing 40??? Its a missmatch it would be exploited. I personally dont like short corners at the 1 or 2. Would you put tim jennings captain munnerlyn on calvin,vj, or even demaryius and expect them to not get gloved on?? I know 1 or 2 iches dont seem like much but it is when their vertical is factored in. Again verret would be a good 3. Maybe the 2 dependin on who hes facing .and in noway am i advocating bigger cbs are better, i dont think verrett is a wise choice.
     
  15. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    and winfield
    and all the guys u named are 5 t10 or taller except for flowers and winefield.that was my point u named 7 cbs only 2 were successful and under 5ft10
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  16. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    thats what im saying cal coaches dline prospects and says screw everyone else basically. Coleman is a mid round between 4th and 6th rounds. Not to many players from cal id want this year , just my opinion tho.
     
  17. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    So you're saying he's just an inch to short to be a good player huh? Those 5'10 guys really had a distinct advantage.:rolleyes:

    As far as the other guys you named none of them are as good of football players as Verrett, his value comes in his anticipation, quickness, ball skills, his ability to mirror even the fastest receivers and his recovery speed,....all things some of those other guys you mentioned struggled with or are just not as good at. There is no way Jason Verrett comes in here and isn't immediately the best CB on the roster, and probably a staple for a long time to come.

    I'd be fine with Fuller too, but I see too much potential for inconsistency in Bradley Roby.
     
  18. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Verrett is 5'9 1/2". That's essentially the same as Flowers, Finnegan, Grimes, and Jennings. Only 1/2" off the mark of guys like Webb, Verner, etc.

    I think a 5'9 1/2" Verrett with great technique, awareness, instincts, ball skills and a 39.5" vertical stands a much better chance against Thomas and other big receivers than someone who's an inch and a half taller but lacking in those areas.
     
  19. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Still waiting to hear who all the studs are on TCU's roster.
     
  20. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    ray burns, paul dawson,trayvon garret. Just a acouple,like it was said earlier cal is extremely coached bad.
     
  21. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    roby fuller and phillip gaines are great corners. Roby is extremely athletic has good not great play rec, but he makes plays on the ball when playing in off man, roby is almost 5ft11 with a 40 inch vertical, that means he can cover almost 12 feet in any direction. P gaines ran a 4.31 40, he six foot 39 inch vertical,and he always found ways to break up passes. Fuller has great ability,not the fastest but one of the smartest,all 3 are bigger faster and have better tape. Roby in 2012 when they played off man,gaines career is nothing but pass break ups, and fullers tape shows the same instincts while not being short.
     
  22. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    people read to much into him, before the season started there were articles posted about how wright was causing injures and making plays on the ball during training camp, and he was terrible throughout the season.
     
  23. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Read too much into who?

    I didn't even mention Shareece Wright.:cautious:

    I'm not usually the grammar police, but dude you couldn't pass a 6th grade English test.
     
  24. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    A cursory glance indicates that those guys are fringe draftable players.
     
  25. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Do your homework pal. Gaines ran a 4.38. Same as Verrett. Roby was in off coverage about 90% of the time in 2013. And a vertical jump doesn't mean you can move 12 feet in any direction (???).

    There's still the nagging little detail that Verrett was better than any of these guys on tape. I like Fuller, but I'll take Verrett first.
     
  26. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  27. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    im typing on the xbox 1, its quite aggravateing,and i was saying read to much into the hype of a player.
     
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  28. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    what im saying is standing still, factor in their vertical plus their height, and thats how many feet in any direction they can cover.shorter player with the same samertical covers less area.
     
  29. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Hey, I'm still on my Timex Sinclair 1000 membrane keyboard, so, no excuses, you!
     
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  30. ssnake86

    ssnake86 BoltTalker

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    No, did you read my post? He ran an official 4.34. He was hand timed in the 4.20's(I believe 4.25). I remember watching in a video on chargers.com with John Spanso saying they timed him multiple times under 4.3o. Implying they were going off of their times rather then the official combine ones(i guess this isnt uncommon?).
     

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