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Studs & Duds - Chargers @ Chiefs

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Studs
    Thomas Keiser - I don't think he's a starter but oh my goodness will he be a fantastic depth player next year.
    Reggie Walker - See Keiser, he's going to be a fantastic
    Donald Butler - A game that reminded us why he was considered the MVP of the defense
    Philip Rivers - he's definitely not broken, and he finally leads the team on a long game winning drive again
    Ladarius Green - between him and Allen, they're the future of the Chargers passing game
    Danny Woodhead - When he's not overused he's amazingly effective
    Ryan Mathews - Running very well continuously, finally he's looking like an effective back
    Keenan Allen - based on his first half he should be a stud. Upon further review he might be moved to middle ground. I would like to know how whether he was double teamed throughout or what. Still as with Green the future of the Chargers passing game looks good.
    Seyi Ajirotutu - Let's be honest, he needs to be seriously thought of as a long term #4 receiver.

    Middle Ground
    DJ Fluker - I'm impressed with yet another good game at Left Tackle but let's be honest that this wasn't the test that most people expected it to be. Please let him be healthy!
    Manti Te'o - He made more impact plays today than he has during any other game, and probably some games combined. But he also whiffed on so many tackles, that it's disturbing. I see what the Chargers saw in him.
    Johnnie Troutman - Similar with Fluker, not the test I expected but let's be honest he needs to play besides Fluker for the next five years.
    Mike McCoy - For 3/4 of the game he's a damn good coach. I like what I see from him as a coach and a manager. But that last 1/4 - at the end of the game he seems to forget that SD in 2013 isn't Denver in 2012 and they can't play that conservatively and expect a bad defense to hold up at the end. He has the killer instinct in many cases of a sea lion drunk on tranquilizer darts.
    Kendall Reyes - One game saving sack doesn't excuse a game constantly being washed aside

    Duds
    Derek Cox - How does this guy get worst game after game after game? More importantly why is he allowed back in?
    Shareece Wright - Two good plays, three obvious penalties and a bunch of times beaten. I really don't think he's a starting CB of any kind
    Marcus Gilchrist - Yes he had an INT but he's not a safety by any stretch of the imagination and I'm not sure what kind of CB he is.
    Nick Hardwick - first real bad game of the season, and that might be more from Dontari Poe being just dominant
    Vincent Brown - Amazing how good this offense looks when he's out of the line up
     
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  2. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Studs - Keenan Allen, Ladarius Green, Danny Woodhead and Philip...

    Duds - Cox (I feel we might not see him again after this), the pass D in general, Clary and McCoy for turtling on the 2nd to last drive AGAIN. Rivers and Tutu bailed him out bigtime. Oh and Vincent Brown... your'e obviously not up to it.
     
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  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Rivers and Tutu bailed McCoy out? So, he gets the fault when they don't succeed, but when his offense comes up big he gets no credit but it's because they bailed him out? As if they said screw McCoy and just did whatever the hell they felt like doing and got a game winning TD out of it?

    And are we still pretending Ken Whizenhunt isn't the one calling the plays?
     
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  4. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Clearly! Its the favorite BoltTalk cosplay!
     
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  5. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

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    Cut Cox NOW!!!!:tdown: :poop:
     
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  6. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Screen Shot 2013-11-24 at 2.53.25 PM.png
     
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  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Yeah it was a great offensive showing, ridiculous not to give McCoy and Wiz their due. If anyone was bailed out it was Pagano....albeit I still feel for the guy a little, we are talent deficient in every key area of our defense. (OLB, NT, CB)
     
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  8. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not even sure Dick LeBeau could do much with our defensive talent.
     
  9. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Leo, I could not agree more re. "No coach should get blamed for virtually all losses, but denied credit for virtually all wins."
    (I've argued this repeatedly--and unsuccessfully--forever…if there is a "2013 and on" new move to widely embrace the idea,
    I'll become a charter member and ringmaster, on the 'better late than never' philosophy)
    .

    That said, overall, yes, I give McWhizzer a good grade for beating a superior roster in a tough, tough venue.
    I did see a bit of the late game turtling that I've so loudly decried, thus I'm sympathetic to those yelling about it,
    but for my money, it wasn't 30% as egregious as Tennessee or Washington, and I feel that McWhizzer's
    later genius calls (same pass play, twice in a row, to Woodhead) more than made up for it.

    But the main point remains, let's judge coaches honestly based on what they actually do. From now on. :)
     
  10. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    The official Pugsley Game Ball goes to Danny Woodhead for his contributions on the final drive.
     
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  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Fossil, you know--from my post above--that I think DW's to catch-and-runs were huge…

    but I don't know how The official Pugsley Game Ball can not go to a QB with a 127.3 passer rating on the day,
    and a 26 yard pass with just 30 seconds left…to something known--only in San Diego--as an "Ajirotutu"
     
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  12. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Leave me out of this one.
     
  13. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Okay so I rewatched the game.

    Studs
    Rivers - first game winning TD pass (under 1 minute left) since 2009. About damn time we win one of these. Really a great day outside a couple errant throws.

    Allen - Flat out embarrassed Shaun Smith all day. Great routes, looks like a punt returner after the catch, doing more than we had any right to expect as a rookie.

    Green - He runs like Gates used too. Shame it took this long for him to get serious snaps, inexcusable really.

    Woodhead - Smartest player on this team

    Others who had nice games: Mathews, the O-line, an despite a couple horrible calls against him Shareece Wright actually didn't have a bad game at all.

    Duds
    Derek Cox - I'm really surprised at just how slow he turns and runs with receivers. A pass rush won't help this guy, he's just Jammer slow.

    Cam Thomas - Lazy, flat footed, stood up consistently and allowed the RB to run by him multiple times without even making an attempt. Arguably the worst player on the field for us today.

    Manti Te'o - whiffed on more tackles than he made. Also struggles in man-man coverage against pretty much everyone. Hopefully just the rookie wall.

    Marcus Gilchrist - Taking the Clinton Hart route. Terrible all day except for one tipped ball that falls in his lap. The search for a SS continues.

    Vincent Brown - nowhere to be found.

    Other less notables who sucked today...DE Guy, RB Brown, DE Lissemore.
     
  14. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Yes Philip and Tutu bailed him out, as did Woodhead, his dummying to go out of bounds (to stop the clock) and instead taking more yards out before getting out of bounds further up the field was a pure play of beauty. I'll give Whiz (if he truly is the playcaller) all the credit in the world for those play designs but I'll also castigate the F out of them for turtling on the 2nd to last drive. It's simple, we continue playing as we were on that drive and KC does not get a chance to take the lead and put unbelievable pressure on our O.

    We're gonna disagree on this one Leo until McCoy ditches the Norvlike turtling/running draws on 2nd and long etc. This was almost a replica of the TN game when we gave them a chance by turtling and they took it.
     
  15. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I think perhaps we have to be careful we dont fall into group-think on every game. I seriously doubt that yesterday was an example of 'turtling'. All game long the run game has been got some, dont got some. We had some good runs other not so good. We were in our end of the field, and face it, Brown has not proven to be a decent back up RB for us. He hesitates behind the line of scrimmage way too much.

    Brown had 6 carries for 23 yards, he had one rush of 13 yards, and 5 to total 10... That is not overly impressive, but he is the big back when RM24 is down as he was in the 4th yesterday. We cant throw on every down so has trutling turned into 'We didnt get a first down'? because the way I see it, we didnt lose the desire for one series. Therefore it has to be that we didnt get the first down, something we are all frustrated about.

    But if that is the case, then there were a lot of coaching staffs turtling yesterday... The Pats-Broncos game turned into the Turtles clubs.
     
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  16. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I'd have to give RM STUD status because his early running had that vaunted Chefs defense sucking air especially when he started bouncing it outside. I just want this kid to stay healthy and I've always said I'd give him the pass on fumbles, it's just part of his style.

    Rivers, Allen, Woody and Fluker were balling despite any mistakes that slowed them down, troutman deserves mention for taking cover at the goal line for incoming woodheads, classic. I'm sure I'm missing some but it was an enjoyable game to watch, the Bolts are usually on the downside of these events.

    Duds?

    The Bolts Defenseless, the complete team. On McClusters first TD whoever was lined up at the line never even bothered to Chuck, dude had a free run on his crossing route. I know Wright took the blame but McClus. had a sprinter head start on him and no one was down-field, Weddle was watching the play from the LOS, unacceptable. I need to re-watch this game as I'm just going off memory.
     
  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    It just seems like a double standard to me when you look at the draw plays (which I agree were stupid) and place all the blame on the feet of McCoy (who, I reiterate isn't the one calling the plays, but I digress...) but then when a play succeeds you put all of the credit on the players saying they "bailed hm out" as if MM and Whiz deserve no credit for calling and designing those plays.

    Saying the players bailed them out suggests that they went rogue and did that all on their own. They did not. McCoy and Whiz deserve credit for the good calls just as much as they deserve blame for the bad ones.
     
  18. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX Hall of Fame

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    THIS! If we had RM in the 4th we probably would have gotten better looks and Rivers would audible out of what the Chiefs D knew was either gonna be a draw or obvious pass with Woodhead out there. I was watching Bellichick not going for it in the first half on very short plays and they kept running it even when they were down 24-0.
     
  19. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    And Rivers gets extra credit for this.......

    Chargers wide receiver Danario Alexander suffered a season-ending knee injury in training camp, and in the aftermath, Rivers mentioned to General Manager Tom Telesco and coach Mike McCoy that there is this receiver, one that he's worked with, one that lives in town, that may be worth a look.

    Ajirotutu was a Charger in 2010 as an undrafted rookie and, after a stint with the Panthers, again in 2012.

    "They brought in a handful of guys (for a tryout)," Rivers said, "and they're like, 'Hey, it wasn't even close. (Ajirotutu) was the best one.'

    "I tell you, the biggest attribute for a quarterback to me is dependability, the biggest one. And he's going to know what to do, and he's going to go as hard as he can, and he loves to play football. Those are the kinds of guys you want on your team."
     
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  20. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Good post Leo... but here's my final say on it. The BS play calls on the 2nd to last drive meant the coaches and even moreso the players had to perform almost miracles to get us the win. If we call/play that 2nd to last drive the way we were playing i.e. mixing up pass and run, involving Allen and Green particularly and there is no need for those heroics. Yes I'm playing devils advocate but there is nothing wrong with pointing out BS strategy when we see it (you said it yourself, stupid draw plays). It cost us the game in TN, similar terrible play calling in DC cost us that game too. It almost cost us this game. Until Whiz (and maybe to a lesser extent McCoy) show me they've the balls to go after a win instead of playing not to lose then count me as a doubter.

    And btw in case anybody is wondering I was delighted with the win... I want nothing more than to see the Chargers win. The TN and DC games sickened me as it did many I'm sure. 3 in a season would have been just too much.
     
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  21. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    I'm not saying throw on every down though... all I'm askin for is the same mix that had served us so well up to then. And with Brown in there even more reason to mix it. Draw play into the line on 1st and 2nd down... Norv would be proud.

    See my other post above too.
     
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  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    If you are suggesting to never run a same type of play after an unsuccessful attempt, then you and Ant are *predictability*.

    Opposing D "Hey we just stopped their run, they gonna pass!"
    Opposing D "Hey we just stopped their pass, they gonna run!"

    *Predictability*.

    Apparently you and Ant are both using hindsight to judge the drive. If not then I am forced to ask where is the damnation for the 6 other series in the game that feature multiple rushes in a row? There were 7 in total (to make Norv proud), where is the fire for those? There isn't any because only in that one drive did you feel the coaches suddenly decided our D could stop them and/or wanted to throw the game.

    How else do you explain your criticism of one series of plays?

    1st drive of the 1st quarter: RM24 followed by DW39. No angst... hmmm
    1st drive of the 2nd quarter: opens with 2 rushes: RM24 followed by RM24.
    2nd drive of the 2nd quarter: 2 rushes
    3rd drive of the 2nd quarter: 2 rushes
    1st drive of the 3rd quarter: GASP! 3 rushes in a row! Someone should be fired!
    4th drive of the 3rd quarter: RB23 for 13 followed by RB23 for 4. Where is the indignation for this series? It worked so the coaches did 'turtle'? Hindsight....
    Oh that drive continues into thee 4th quarter with yet another RB23 rush so another 3 in a row...
    Then the infamous drive...

    If that does not illustrate the fact that fans are looking at the one drive through hindsight glasses, you are not paying attention. To say we cant run the ball twice in a row to try and get a first down is as foolish as saying we cant try and throw it. Yes I know you did not say that, but the implication is there. To say 'mix it up' is fine, but to what? Deep in our side of the field with the Chiefs D looking to make a game saving BIG play... Mix it up to what? How would you and Ant be describing the play calling if a pick 6 on that very drive ended the game in a loss?

    Also let me explain to you and Anteater why at that time running the ball was the correct decision in my mind. Game awareness.

    That drive, the 2nd from the last. Do you recall where we were? We were on our own 21 yard line. The Chiefs D was amped to get a stop and on the drive prior had barely missed getting 2 interceptions. An interception at that location would have been (in most likelihood, being a throw out towards the sideline) a pick 6. So if we had passed and been intercepted on 1st or 2nd down, leading to a pick 6 how do you suppose that would have changed the momentum of the game? The runs are the safe play. You try and get yardage with the safe play and go to the pass when you have to. That is not 'turtling' that is coaching 101. If you choose to crucify McCoy and Whisenhunt for that, you crucify every coaching staff.

    I was right there with you when I saw RB23 ran twice. I don't like him as our RB... But by the middle of the Chiefs next drive, realizing that even Gates couldn't get open against the Chiefs D on that drive, it started to make sense.

    You call it what ever you want, but it was the correct play call for the time and location.

    P.S. This does not mean that I think all the plays called are the correct ones. I have railed and complained about some big 'bad' calls. It is just in my honest and as you see very long winded opinion, this one is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
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  23. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    At least long-winded. :sneaky:
     
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  24. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Some good points there Conc no doubt about that. Hindsight or not I still believe we needed to keep the aggression up at that point of the game. And it would appear I'm not alone in that thinking, not that being part of a majority of observers makes it right but it's interesting all the same.

    Kudos to you for taking the less popular point of view.

     
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