1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Sweet secondary!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by curtisboltfan, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. curtisboltfan

    curtisboltfan BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    122
    Ratings:
    +9
    Our secondary today was outright garbage. This has been our weak link for sooooooooooooooo long. Quentin Jammer is mediocre at best, and Cro plain and simple got tore up. Kiel is not worth a squirt of piss and i feel so bad for mccree who is great(nice hit on douchemandzadeh) We get a quality secondary and the league is ours. Now we have to really fight to go to the big show. In no doubt do we go to the divisional playoffs.
     
  2. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,310
    Ratings:
    +432

    You forgot the one Charger DB that sucked the most....Drayton Florence! :tdown:
     
  3. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +7
    Our biggest weakness is at strong safety. McCree is a stud, but Kiel is a liability against the pass.

    Get off Jammer's case. The guy is a great cover corner. There was a breakdown on the UT forums that showed convincingly that Jammer has been better neutralizing #1 receivers than Champ Bailey over the past two years. He just doesn't get the picks.

    The scores we gave up through the air came against either Kiel, Florence, or Cromartie (who was caught out of position against Johnson on his second deep score, but still almost caught up with him to make a play).
     
  4. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,817
    Ratings:
    +1,171
    Zone coverage will be the death of us.
     
  5. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,696
    Ratings:
    +402
    He wasnt close if its the 2nd one your refering too...he was 10 yards behind. Cro still has a ways to go to be a starter.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. foober

    foober BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Ratings:
    +200
    It is the chargers achilles heel. Has been for years. But today it really showed how bad it really it. Its either the coaching which I really suspect or they have to find one or two more d-backs that know what to do back there.

    This also pertains to the inside linebackers. They have to help out as well and they don't seem to be able to do that.

    Without a very good pass rush.(missing castillo and merriman) this pass defense is a disaster.
     
  7. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,817
    Ratings:
    +1,171
    It's the scheme you guys. There's no way these guys suck that bad otherwise they'd be wearing silver and black.

    Kiel does suck. My bad.
     
  8. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +7

    He totally blew the coverage, but that's to be expected since Palmer made a nice play in looking back to Chad running the fly route. Any young cornerback will get toasted on a play like that.

    What impressed me was that he recovered. He ran Chad Johnson down from behind and got a hand on him, though he wasn't able to bring him down.
     
  9. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,981
    Ratings:
    +272
    Yup. He has the tools but he still has a tendency to bite on fakes and let receivers behind him. We saw that a few times in training camp and pre-season and it finally came back to bite us in the *** today.
     
  10. foober

    foober BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Ratings:
    +200
    I'm just glad folks are waking up that the chargers d-backfield pass defense suuckkks. Its been like this for a while now. And as boltdiehard has mentioned the schemes they're using are getting figured out way too easy by opponents.
     
  11. tboltzcali

    tboltzcali Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,065
    Ratings:
    +108
    on a lighter note, we pretty much forgot to pressure Palmer all day. Any offense would have a field day if given that much time. How much is merriman being missed. We beat denver next week. Gunna be great.
     
  12. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +7
    :icon_rofl:

    You guys are ridiculous...the defense has one bad game against one of the prolific passing teams in the NFL and...suddenly the secondary is a liability? How about their #5 ranking against the pass for the past eight games?

    By the way, that sieve of a secondary did manage to hold the Bengals to 13 points in the second half, when Cinci's efforts were centered around putting the Bolts away.
     
  13. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,981
    Ratings:
    +272
    Actually, our secondary has been very vulnerable over the last 5 games. Surely you won't deny that. We've given up 24 or more points in 4 straight games, and with the exception of the game against KC it's been mostly the secondary that's been the problem.
     
  14. tboltzcali

    tboltzcali Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,065
    Ratings:
    +108
    Number five when we have our best 7 playing. They put the pressure on and cause turnovers or incompletions. Now we dont have that pressure and our secondary is going to get exposed. Thank god our offense is good enough to put up points, and our current defense is good enough to stop opposing teams when needed, but until we get out front 7 back, its going to be a shoootout the rest of the way. Dont blame the secondary only on the 2 td's to Plaid Johnson. Kiel got faked out of his jock on that one. The other, didnt see the reply.
     
  15. foober

    foober BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Ratings:
    +200
    Have you been following the chargers and thier pass defense in the last few years. Doesn't sound like it. They definetly have had a problem for a while. And it can't be all on the players.

    If your fine with mediocrity then thats your problem. But i'm not.
     
  16. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +7
    So the proof that the secondary is bad is that Palmer had all day to throw and gashed 'em? News flash, fellas: you can't stop the pass without a pass rush, especially against a team like the Bengals. I don't care if you have six Champ Baileys running around out there, someone will get open.

    This secondary is no Ravens defensive backfield, but they're not bad by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  17. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +7
    Wrong wrong wrong. KC beat us because they could run against us. That's the key to winning football games, ladies and gents: establishing the ground game. The Chargers give up passing yards in droves and still win games (a lot of the yards come with two score leads). They did it all year in '04.

    The teams that beat us do it on the ground. That's why the great Peyton Manning runs into a brick wall against San Diego. He can't relieve any of the pressure with a consistent running attack.

    Think about it for a second. When we lose, we usually lose close, lower scoring games (@Philly '05, @Denver '05). We never get blown out like one might think a weak pass defense would.

    Do you think Cleveland magically found its passing rhythm late last week? Does it make sense that St. Louis finally figured it all out to score all those points in 4th quarter after a two hour long exercise in futility? No, even Wade said it, the Chargers let up with the big lead, and give the opposing QB time to pass in order to find intermediate receivers and burn the clock.

    Now, that's not to say the defense wasn't terrible today. Because it was. But this was an outlier game for the San Diego defense. It was more a fluke than anything.
     
  18. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,981
    Ratings:
    +272
    Dude, I SAID that KC was the exception. Of course, KC also threw on us at will, so maybe it's not really the exception.

    And yeah...you can go on thinking there's no problem with our secondary. You evidently think that a W wipes away all evils, and to some extent it does. But we're not always going to be able to rely on our offense scoring 42 points in a half on the road or wide receivers dropping passes in the end-zone, or our defense holding an opposing team to 6 FG's like against Cleveland. I'm not going to close my eyes and say, "there's no problem with the secondary, there's no problem with the secondary." That would be like sticking my finger in an electrical outlet while saying "I won't get shocked....I won't get shocked."

    There's obviously a problem with the secondary and that problem is pretty simple; when we aren't getting a lot of pressure on the QB these guys collectively are vulnerable.
     
  19. tboltzcali

    tboltzcali Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,065
    Ratings:
    +108
    Your right. We have holes in our secondary, especially when we get no pressure. We now know our biggest strength on defense and our weakest. Im sure we will get this corrected in time for Denver. Denver doesnt have the "3 amigos" cincy has. Jevon Walker is no joke so he will be covered. The game is going to come down on if we can pressure Fake Bummer into 3 ints like today.
     
  20. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,513
    Ratings:
    +867
    The key is keeping Plummer from rolling out. As a pocket passer, Jake is mediocre. But when he move around back there and buys time, he is dangerous. Pressure has to be at least like what we had against Cleveland, and we can't play any worse than we did today in the secondary.
     
  21. RAIDOOORS!...suck

    RAIDOOORS!...suck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    52
    Ratings:
    +5
    our pass rush was not as good there for our pass d was twice as bad. at times carson had all day to decide who to throw a touch down too and that sucks.... has it been 4 games yet? we need 56
     
  22. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,696
    Ratings:
    +402
    So the safety totally blowing the coverage on CJ's first wide open long TD pass was the result of no pass rush? Seems to me he dropped back and let er rip. He didnt stand there and survey the field.

    A pass rush would have been nice i agree and it would have helped but some of those throws were just good throws to open WR's.
     
  23. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    I think it has already been said that when we have no pass rush, the pass defense will suffer.

    It does not matter who the players are because they will get torched.

    No pass rush = no pass defense.

    The obvious problem with the Chargers secondary is the fans and not the players.
     
  24. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,981
    Ratings:
    +272
    You're right Trumpy...it's not because Kiel got juked out of his jock and gets juked out of his jock at least once a week...or that Cro let Johnson get about ten yards behind him or that Florence repeatedly, game-after-game, gets out-of-position and turned around, or that none of our corners or safeties seems to be able to hold onto interceptions...

    Yeah, it's the FANS. :lol:

    Look, I don't think our secondary is horrible, but it's definitely the soft underbelly of our defense and they need A LOT of pressure from the front-seven to be good. And no, Trumpy, not every secondary relies on heavy pressure on the QB to limit the passing-game. Our '04 defense was horrible when it came to getting pass pressure but at least they could force teams to kick FG about half the time they got into our red-zone. Lately it seems like if the opposing team gets into our red-zone it's 4:1 that they'll score a TD.
     
  25. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,689
    Ratings:
    +383
    Jammer is one of the top cover corners in the NFL. Nothing he can do about staying with a receiver for 6-7 seconds when there is no pass rush but he will shadow a receiver routinely throughout an entire route for the initial 4-5 seconds of the route's duration. All those underneath passes are not his fault either. If you're in zone it is your duty to follow the assignment. The problem with the secondary is Kiel as far as coverage and positioning goes. Cro is having "CRO"-ing pains.
     
  26. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    And how long was that pass where Kiel got juked out of his jock and how LONG did it take to set it up ?

    Do you think that same play happens if heat is on Palmer's *** ?

    Anybody will get burned is the point you are dismissing.

    It could be jesus christ and it just so happened it was Kiel who got burned and the results will be the same.

    The second sentence I bolded just makes ZERO football sense. None.

    The secondary players are not as shiity as some would make them out to be.

    They gave up 41 points as a unit and not 41 points because of Kiel.
     
  27. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
  28. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,112
    Ratings:
    +2,931
    More times then not, i've been rewatching some of the highlights
    Guys watch teh game and tell me;
    is it just me or are the REAL big games coming when we do zone coverage?
     
  29. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +7
    I guess every team in the NFL, then, except sometimes the Ravens, is in a whole lot of trouble.
     
  30. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    7,073
    Ratings:
    +1,554
    Cro got burned on a double move. He has to learn that he can't be as aggressive as he was at FSU in the NFL.

    I agree with MTL about Jammer. The guy's playing his azz off this season. Not only has he been good in coverage, but he's snagged a couple picks and blanketed some very good receivers. Did Jammer get beat for a single big play (20+ yards) yesterday? Certainly not one that I can remember.

    Kiel has to go. I love McCree,. but the guy is a SS, not a free. We need a rangy, athletic free safety that can cover. Then we can move McCree to strong safety and we'll be much improved.
     

Share This Page