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The case for Ben Tate in round 2....

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Boltergeist, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    Just throwing a dart out there that I think this guy could be a likely choice with our second rounder....if he's still on the board by the time we pick. I've been looking into this guy and I can't figure out why he's ranked so much lower than Ryan Mathews on most draft boards. You could make an argument that he is just as deserving to be picked #20. In last year's draft, he has the talent to be picked ahead of a guy like Knowshon Moreno who had similar stats but no where near the combine results and ideal measurables that Tate had.

    Consider that first and foremost, Ben Tate played against MUCH tougher competition in the SEC week after week than Mathews did at FSU. That alone would give you a much better idea of what he is capable of at the NFL level as he has played against a significantly higher tier of athlete on a regular basis.

    Mathews had a very good combine....but I think Ben Tate actually slightly outperformed him in just about every category. Tate ran a 4.43 40 and Mathews a 4.45 40 so they are very similar speed wise...and I think Tate was the #1 or #2 back in many of the other strength and jumping drills. They are virtually identical in size at around 5'11 220....but Tate seems like he's a stronger inside runner, which is actually better suited for our current offense. Mathews also has a history of getting knicked up, wheras Tate appears to be about as reliable as they get. From watching his highlights, he also appears to be versatile and a good receiving back.

    In short, I would be thrilled to land this guy in round 2 and would even consider drafting him in round 1. I wouldn't be totally shocked if he is picked before our 28 pick.

     
  2. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    wow - I heard him on 1090 this week (or maybe last week) and looked him up a little bit... something about the kid that I like - I'd read he would be a 3rd/4th rounder but only b/c for some reason he's under the radar...
     
  3. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    I think he's pretty much a concensus high 2nd rounder now....The only things I can really think of are that many teams already have their feature back and are looking to plug holes elsewhere early in the draft which is making this year's second round a gold mine of talent at probably the deepest position in an overall deep draft. Also I think teams that are looking at RBs, may be looking for very specific skill sets....ie, you have a guy like Javhid Best who has blazing speed and can return punts as well as be a change up back.

    We are looking for a guy who can be a primary ball carrier, but just not to the extent LT used to be as a single back workhorse. I think the guy has everything we need as a back to split time with Sprolesy.
     
  4. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    Let me just add that I will be really pissed if we pass on this guy for a Jacob Hester clone like Toby Gerhart. IMO, Ben Tate blows Gerhart away as an impact early round RB.
     
  5. szarmes

    szarmes I am the Walrus

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    I'd be happy if we got him!! But I'm still sold on Mathews... Either one would be an improvement though and both fit the profile of the type of runner we need.
     
  6. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Agree with you. Either one would be a good back. Tate seems to be under the radar, but dude has the skills. Auburn has produced some very productive backs in the past too.
     
  7. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    Tate has some pretty snazzy Tshirts on sale now with lightining bolts and "Thunderstruck - 44 - Ben Tate" on them... guessing it's gotta be some sort of nickname he had in college? Unless it's a signor elaborate plan by AJ to throw people off of Matthews trail? .... :lol:
     
  8. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    I'll take that as some sort of positive kharma sign. :bolt:
     
  9. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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  10. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Tate is a 3rd round talent. The combine whores are pumping up his stock. The main thing that he has going for him is that he did play in a real CFB conference like the SEC vs. the WAC, which is one step above Div1A .... maybe. :unsure:
     
  11. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    How do you figure he is a 3rd round talent. Explain.

    The guy ran for 1300 yards in the SEC.
    He was arguably the best performing back in the NFL combine.
    He has ideal measurables at 5'11 220.

    This is a 1st round talent that would be a steal in the 2nd round IMO. If this was last year, no way Knowshon Moreno and his 4.62 40 time and comparable stats playing in the same conference would have been a better prospect than Tate. A lot more RB talent in the 2010 draft.
     
  12. chargerlipz

    chargerlipz Leading the league in nose hairs.

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    Only thing that really jumps out at me that would make me like Matthews more is this:
    Matthews yards per carry-6.6
    Tate yards per carry-5.2

    That is a big diference.

    However, Matthews played in the WAC so the level of competition might not be as high. So who the hell knows...:icon_shrug:
    Tate>Matthews? Possibly.

    I would be happy taking either one.
     
  13. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    I'm not saying Mathews is worse than Tate...I'm just saying there isn't much of a difference when you look at them both objectively and watch their film. They are both very good RBs who in my mind grade out very similarly....and if Mathews ends up getting drafted earlier in the first round, and we end up with Tate as our 2nd round pick....I would say we got extremely good value and a potential steal.
     
  14. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I agree about Moreno.

    No way is Ben Tate anything more than a 3rd round talent to us. I don't care what other teams are willing to spend. To us, he's 3rd round.
     
  15. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    Again, how so and in what world besides yours? I'd like to hear your rationale.....and further, I'd be more than willing to bet you that he doesn't slip out fo the 2nd round.

    The Stanford kid? yeah...I can see him in the 3rd round...Tate? No way.
     
  16. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I've offered way more than enough of my draft takes at other sites. I'm not going to get into it other than this .....

    We are a pass-first offense. We don't need to have anything more than a 15-20th rank rushing attack to have a drastic improvement over 2009.

    IMO, what we do need to have is a defense that can get off the field on 3rd down & put the ball back into our offense's hands. After several years of an LT-focused offense, we didn't win a Lombardi.

    Do you really think that a lesser back will win us one?

    No .... defense wins is not just something that sounds cool.

    Get a fuc.king clue ... there isn't a RB in this year's draft that is going to make a SB-type of difference.

    Wanna make that kind of difference? Draft Cody & Spikes 1 & 2.

    If Tate lasts until 3, fine. If not, draft the best OB or CB on the board & wait until the 4th to draft any number of serviceable RB's that will be there.

    Fans are like myna birds .... swoop in & grab the bling. WE've had RB bling since 2001 - how has that worked out for ya?

    Make me laugh some more .... :icon_twisted:
     
  17. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    Brandon Spikes :icon_rofl:...that guy ran himself into the back end of the draft with his 5.10 combine time and you want to draft him in round 2?....He may not even get picked up before round 6 now. OK, at least I know I'm talking to someone that isn't making any sense now......except for drafting Cody #1....which I agree with BTW.

    You need to "get a f&^*(ing clue" if you don't think that a running game is important...especially in the playoffs....We don't need another LT, but we need a very good go-to back for this offense....and there are several in this draft which is a very deep one at the position.

    Ben Tate has an excellent resume and had a great combine. If we are able to grab him in round 2, we are lucky.
     
  18. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    BTW, the last two years we've had a Philip Rivers focused offense...and that hasn't produced a ring either.
     
  19. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Just because RB is the "blingy" pick, doesn't mean its the wrong pick.

    Bottom line (like I've said a half dozen times) is any RB we take is likely going to play A LOT of football for us in 2010. I'd like to have the most NFL ready one we can get, not take a flyer on just some guy like Lonyae Miller or Joique Bell and prey they can handle the NFL.


    BTW just because we can pass the ball doesn't mean we should settle for an average running game. It would be nice to be able to lean on the run game if PR is having a bad day.
     
  20. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    Not to mention other variables like the weather effecting the passing game.....or the other defense being very effective against the pass (ie, the Jets in last year's playoffs)...or off days by receivers...or game situations dictating that we control clock with the running game.
     
  21. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    tate is definelty another possibility. A hard running fast rb. Were gonna have to see who falls where.

    RIght now i'm guessing gerhart or matthews will be our #1 rb next year. And we may pick up a back like dwyer or the LSU rb or another one in the 3rd or 4th round.

    Got a feeling theres more to come via a trade or two.
     
  22. Bergo23

    Bergo23 BoltTalker

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    "Does not have great vision"

    I don't know how one measures this, but a scout said it of him, and its the one thing I hear over and over about great backs: their vision.

    We only have to wait 3 weeks or so, and we'll know if the Bolts think he has enough vision to carry the rock for us.
     
  23. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    I don't pretend to be a pro scout, but the film says otherwise to me...Looks like he can spot holes and running lanes pretty well...has the speed to run outside and the power to run over someone.

    I feel like there is too much upside to this guy for him to slip very far in the 2nd round. Some teams who are interested in him may be down playing him to keep him under the radar so he is available when they are ready to jump on him. I also think the combine numbers took a lot of people by surprise as he wasn't expected to be that fast.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I agree with this. I also question his lateral quickness.

    Which is why I love Mathews so much. He is every bit as intense and good at pushing the pile and breaking tackles, but his patience and footwork are two things that are way underrated, along with his hands.

    Tate has great straitline speed, but he's kind of a run strait ahead and pray you hit the right hole guy. Which doesn't often work in the NFL, just look at TJ Ducket. :lol:
     
  25. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    I'm assuming Mathews is gone at #20 to Houston, which I think will happen...If not Houston, than the Patriots.

    Tate has very good hands also, and the running styles between Mathews and Tate actually look very similar to me. Mathews is also a one cut and go type of runner.....He may have a little more acceleration through the hole....but I don't see a lot of difference on film other than Mathews was running through a lot of giant holes in weak defenses...It's hard not to look good on film when you are running in the wide open on a lot of big runs.
     
  26. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    but we've come very close. And I wouldn't blame Rivers on why we didn't win the whole thing. We all know why we didn't win the whole thing at least twice now in the last few years.
     
  27. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Before bashing Mathews for playing in the WAC, remember the guys blocking for him are WAC players too.:yes:

    I also don't see A LOT of big holes ...more just a guy hitting the right hole, then making a juke or a stiff arm and bouncing outside. Which is probably why the Texans are so interested, instead of picking their bigger need CB.
     
  28. SDDon

    SDDon BoltTalker

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    You had a point till you mentioned Cody and Spikes. Right there is where I stopped reading. I don't care how many sites you post on or what you think of yourself but you have no cred with me if that is what you think.

    Tate at 40 makes some sense if Mathews is gone at 28. The other back I would consider is Hardesty.
     
  29. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Spikes is a leader, something that we desperately lack on this defense right now. Watch him play & you'll see that he plays a lot faster than his 40 times. Is he a sideline to sideline guy? No, but he really doesn't have to be. You won't see him getting dragged around like Cooper.

    Cody is a very rare beast - an athletic man at 350 lbs. Is controlling his weight an issue? Certainly - so put in the clauses, talk to Saban, etc. Even Jamal didn't play every down.

    Throw around all of the insults that you want. Obviously you all have so much experience at evaluating talent. Perhaps you should go into the scouting business. I don't care if you read my posts or not - but at least every other one isn't touting Mathews or whoever is the current flavor of the month.
     
  30. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I was thinking the same exact thing.:yes: Once I read Cody and Spikes he completely lost me, your talking about two of the biggest falling stocks in the entire draft. If Cody wern't a NT they'd be talking about him as a 3rd round pick too.

    I think some people are swayed too much by the Siler/Spikes combo because they both played for the Gators. It would probably lead to us having the worst passing defense in the entire league, and be a serious liability covering TE's.
     

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