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The Chargers just aren't that good

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Kj1551, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Kj1551

    Kj1551 BoltTalker

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    I see several people complaining about the coaching (I've been one of them) but lets just go ahead and admit the Chargers are no longer a good football team.

    I never was a huge Philip Rivers fan, he has only proven to be good with an elite line, and tall receivers who can get up and get the ball. Even though he isn't as good as a many people had him, all the blame can't be placed on him. Maybe 2 people on our offensive line could start somewhere else, I'm not sure any of our corners could start right now for another team at CB.

    The team just isn't that good and while I do put a lot of the blame on Norv(poor playcalling, go with the flow attitude, lack of leadership) you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****
     
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  2. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Good chunks of their defense are actually pretty decent, but the OL being so bad basically makes their entire offense atrocious
     
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  3. Nomad

    Nomad Very Senior Member

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    I hope the new GM and HC get about 5 new good O-linemen.
     
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  4. Kj1551

    Kj1551 BoltTalker

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    Exactly there are a few good players, but as a team, they aren't that good. That goes on Norv for not finding the right cohesion, but AJ is the one signing and drafting these guys.
     
  5. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    When Rivers has 4 seconds to get the ball out against a four man rush and ~3 seconds against more, you can't be surprised by our pathetic offense, and you can't blame it on Rivers when our receivers don't get open in fewer than 3 seconds. So far, Danario Alexander looks like a keeper for next year though.
     
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  6. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I think that's an inaccurate assessment. Our defense has held Manning to a net 8 points. We have many good players on offense and defense, but when none of them are on the line, having talent in other places is worthless.
     
  7. Kj1551

    Kj1551 BoltTalker

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    How many of these players will go start on a contender right now? The defense is good, save the cornerback position.

    Offensively I still don't think Floyd would be a number one on a championship caliber team.
     
  8. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Players who would be starters on any roster in the NFL
    Weddle
    Butler

    Players who would be starters on any roster without a top 5 player at the position
    Rivers
    Mathews

    Players who would be starters if they weren't rookies on any roster without a top 5 player
    Ingram
    Reyes

    Players who could start on/be in a heavy rotation on a contender's roster, but are equal to, rather than better than, those players
    Jarrett Johnson
    Barnes
    Martin
    Franklin
     
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  9. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I think that Alexander would be a starter on many rosters as well. The guy is a gamer.
     
  10. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    If anything our defense has illustrated the exact point that should be emphasized on offense: If you invest into having a strong trench then you can compensate for average/mediocre/sub-par accompaniment at the skill positions.

    It is, literally, the only reason I have left for thinking there's merit to keeping AJ around (because he finally seemed to get it on the defensive side of the ball). However, at this point the reasons to let him go outweigh the reasons to keep him around (this is a team in sore need of a breath of fresh air and a new core mantra - something I don't think is achieved by just tweaking the current regime by bringing in a new head coach but not shaking up the front office).
     
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  11. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    You left out Liuget.
     
  12. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Pure oversight. Liuget has looked rather beast this season. He's probably a top 5-10 3-4 DE.
     
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  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Honestly he and Reyes are the only reason I wouldn't advocate moving away from the 3-4 under a new regime (though it's debatable whether Liuget wouldn't dominate just as well playing the 1-tech/NT in certain 4-3 variations with Reyes as the 3-Tech/Undertackle). Look across the league, very rarely do you see interior defensive linemen make major contributions in their rookie season (and when they do they are typically being moved out of the position the team ultimately intends to play them at in order to get them reps - see BJ Raji and Vince Wilfork being played as 3-4 DE's as rookies before kicking inside) and the ones that do are usually such rare breed specimens that there's a precise reason they go Top 10 (or earlier) in their draft classes (Suh, Watt, etc). I'm telling you, give Reyes that same full year of development that Liuget got and we can expect a similar ascension. They're similar players in the sense of what they accomplish, but they go about it different ways - which is great utility because the strengths of one clearly cover the deficiency of the other and vice versa.
     
  14. Enormo

    Enormo BoltTalker

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    With the exception of the Oline and Rivers' struggles this is a good talented team. (Special teams has got to get their **** straight.) All the hand wringing about which few players are talented is silly.
     
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  15. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I'm ready for this season to be over. I really hope we don't **** up our draft pick by winning 2 or 3 more games.

    Carolina and Oakland are traps, we could accidentally stumble into wins in those games. But other than that I don't see any "W"s on the sched.
     
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  16. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Admittedly I'd be very very interested in seeing what Reyes/Liuget/Martin could do as a deadly rotation of DTs. Phillips and Ingram could be solid DEs with Barnes as a pass rush specialist. Butler can be a very good ILB too alongside Johnson/Spikes. We would need at least another OLB and probably another real DE but its doable. The only reason I'd be against moving to 4-3 is that it would require further investment in our defense beyond the CBs we already need
     
  17. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Carolina's going to be an interesting (and by that I mean truly comical) game to watch. For those that haven't been paying attention to the Panthers this season they are literally trying to find new and inventive ways to lose each and every week (it honestly reminds me of our 2010 season where it was something new going wrong every week) - then again, look whose staff they got their coaches from. This same Carolina team was up 21-10 on the Bucs AT HOME today with 9 minutes left in the game and eventually managed to lose 27-21 in OT, giving up a 40 yard FG, a 24-yard TD with 14 seconds left in the game, a 2 point conversion, and an 8 play, 80 yard drive for a game-winning TD in OT.

    We're literally going to see our two teams fighting over who gets to piss the game away the hardest/worst/best.
     
  18. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Looking at the schedule, I am thinking 6-10 this season. :cry:
     
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  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Ultimately, I'd play Johnson as a LDE and sub someone in for him on 3rd and obvious passing situations. Ingram has the kind of versatility that you don't want to commit to playing him with a hand in the dirt unless you have to. You stick him at SAM LB in a 4-3 and use him similarly to how the Donkey's use Von Miller, because he can cover, he can play the run, and if you allow him to create his own mismatch he can rush the pass from the edge as well. Ideally, you'd either cut bait with Spikes entirely or you run a one-year plan until his contract runs out with him starting at Mike LB and Butler at Will with the eventual plan to move Butler into the Mike spot); with Butler and Ingram as the nickel backers.

    Phillips' re-signing would entirely come down to money. If it's reasonable, you sign him and play him at RDE (with the possibility of moving him over to the left on passing downs). If not, you draft one (not necessarily in the 1st, but you at the very least roll the dice on one of the height/weight/speed types that fall through the cracks of the 1st round for whatever reason, as happens most years, like a Michael Johnson, Charles Johnson, Jabaal Sheard, or Andre Branch).
     
  20. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    The O-line has killed this team this year. River's hasn't helped but he's nowhere near as bad as some fools in here would have you believe.
     
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  21. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    To be completely honest. The O-Line is embarrassing to watch. See Rivers calling a slide protection to Miller's side 2 times in on the same play, and they still ****** it up! I don't put much blame on Rivers. I mean you are asking a guy who can't run with the ball in his hands to be a mobile Qb. Dude has no time to throw, and many times is trying to fit the ball into windows that just aren't there because our wr's can't create separation.

    I swear if we don't address the O-Line in FA, or the draft (early) I am going to flip my lid.
     
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  22. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    4-12 and a top 5 pick sounds good to me (+ picking higher in every round).
     
  23. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Doubt we will be that high but imagine we will be top 10/11; perfect spot for one of the better OTs or the best CB
     
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  24. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    I know, we will get to the point where we arent mathematically out and then Norv will take us on a 3 or 4 game win streak just to fall at the end again leaving us picking in the middle of the round where there are less sure things. Only thing we can hope for is a new regime with better draft sense.
     
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  25. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    If the season ended today we'd be picking somewhere between 8th and 15th. I think that if we lost out, we'd likely have a worse record than everyone but Jax and KC, so a top 3 pick isn't out of reach, we just have to lose out to earn it. If we win 5 games, that will push us to the 4-9 range, and I think 6 is the 9-13 range.
     
  26. Navybolt

    Navybolt BoltTalker

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    The Chargers are BAD, BAD, BAD!

    I have it from a reliable source who will remain nameless.

    A.J. Smith was a secret agent who was paid off by Al Davis to infiltrate the Chargers and ruin them by hiring Turner as coach getting rid of the good players...

    Unfortunately, it would be to the Chargers benefit to loose all the rest of this years games. We then would have better draft picks which a decent GM/Head Coach combination (if the Greek can find two guys like that) could use. It's going to take several years, even with a decent GM/head coach combination for the Chargers to get good...
     

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