1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

The non-Development of Mike McCoy

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Samuel, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Samuel

    Samuel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Ratings:
    +11
    First post her, have a lot to say.

    I would like to say this first. I don't want to be the reason Mike McCoy ends up in a mental hospital after a nervous breakdown. After he is fired on Friday, I will wish him no ill will. He will probably become OC for either the Chiefs or Bears. And in about 8 years he'll get another chance, and we will all laugh remembering what a terrible coach he was for us, and be surprised that he's improved.

    Most of the greatest head coaches in the game experience failure early on, Darth Belichick and Pete Carroll are good examples of this. The get fired for leading a bad team, they step back and they grow. And right now Mike McCoy is not growing. It's the equivalent to trying to make Melvin Gordon better better by continuously giving him shotgun draws.

    He should have been fired last year, because he did not have what it took to win close games. Same reason Tom Coughlin was fired incidentally. In week 1, when he tried not to lose the game by playing conservative, the other three AFC west coaches completely showed guts and were rewarded with glory. Gary Kubiak going for it on 4th and goal, Del Rio's 2 point conversion win, and Andy Reid just being able to lead his team on an amazing comeback. A picture of Alex Smith diving for the end zone while a confused Tourek Williams just stands there will one day hang in the Chiefs offices to commemorate one of their greatest victories.

    And as we've seen, McCoy did not learn from this experience. The reason The Raiders scored 6 on a 4th and 2 and Bolts botched their game tying field goal is that God hates cowards. It's the same reason Lev Bell won the game last year at the buzzer, and that after a successful game tying field goal against The Ravens, Flacco got them back down the field on a Steve Williams PI and Tucker won them the game, like he does every time.

    And McCoy did not learn the important lesson that playing it safe against good teams is very risky. He didn't learn from it, because he didn't have time to reflect, because he was just focused on the next opponent. He hasn't experienced failure with these losses, and in fact have experienced the victory of beating the odds and not getting fired.

    After Thursday, McCoy will get fired. And until the offseason when he'll get another job he'll have plenty of time to reflect on the decisions he's made, which will make him a better coach. But by keeping him on, The Chargers are hampering the development of Mike McCoy as a coach.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. Lancer 1

    Lancer 1 Eternal Optimist

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,085
    Ratings:
    +341
    Some people are just better suited to be coordinators, because they are not leaders of men. Norv Turner is a perfect example, he got 3 different opportunities as an NFL Head Coach, but didn't "evolve" into a good one. Norv enjoyed some early success in San Diego with the tough & talented team he inherited after Marty's dismissal, but as some of those players left and Turner's wimpiness infected the team, we ended up with the disaster that led to his & the GM's firings.

    The Chargers team that Norv ran into the ground likely closed the door on any other team offering him their head coaching job, and rightfully so. Mike McCoy is Norv Jr, yet another former average quarterback who is risk aversed to the detriment of the team he coaches, but it'll probably take another team giving him their gig before it is confirmed to everyone else.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    15,200
    Ratings:
    +2,407
    Norv had this team at 13-3 with a 1st round bye 3 years removed from Marty. Sure, they lost their first playoff game but so did that 14-2 team every Marty lover boasts like it's the team that brought the Lombardi to San Diego.

    I'm not going to pretend Norv was a great head coach, though. I'm simply calling a spade a spade here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,197
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Why would anyone other than the McCoy's give a rat's toss bag about the "development" of Mike McCoy?! :confused:
     
  5. Samuel

    Samuel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Ratings:
    +11
    Broncos will have an interim head coach on Thursday because Kubiak is recovering. Shouldn't bolts have an interim head coach to make things fair?
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    Nice first post. Welcome.

    I agree with most of that. While I was furious at McCoy for inexcusably giving away the Chiefs game
    (and said it was a last straw, that earned him a firing) I try not to get caught up in the
    "Everything is the HC's fault!!" hysteria when a rookie punter blows the placement of a routine FG.
    This is not a great team. We can, and should bring in a new HC, but only with the sober realization
    that it won't actually make a sub-par roster into a winner. Promise.
     
  7. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,291
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Arrested Development........ wasn't that a TV show? ;)
     
  8. Samuel

    Samuel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Ratings:
    +11
    I think they keep him around because they believe he will get better. My argument is that he won't get better until he is fired. Pointless post I guess, since no Spanos eye will see it.
     
  9. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    15,200
    Ratings:
    +2,407
    They're trying to convince people to give them a new stadium.

    I guarantee nothing short of a blowout victory on Thursday saves his job.
     
  10. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,052
    Ratings:
    +635
    Gotta disagree, this roster, when healthy, IS good enough to be a winner

    You have:

    1) one of the best QBs in the game
    2) one of the best WR in the game, an explosive #2 and a phisicaly gifted #3
    3) a future HOF TE and a very promising rookie
    4) a good RB that has found the endzone
    5) a decent OL with some depth
    6) with Bosa's performance, I'll say a decent to good Dline (ok, just decent for now)
    7) good linbackers with Ingram, Perriman, Brown (Attaochu and Teo arenĀ“t bad)
    8) a good secondary with one of the best CB in the league
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    15,200
    Ratings:
    +2,407
    I don't know.

    I try not to be on the "everything is the HC's fault" wagon, and it's definitely not everything, but it does seem like this team is very capable of playing on a high level but then fizzles in the end and when it counts. That's a sign of poor coaching IMO.

    That's not to say McCoy is the only problem, but at least to me he does seem to be the biggest problem.

    It's not really his fault that a rookie punter blows the placement of a routine FG, but you can probably place a lot of blame on him for them having to set up for a game tying FG at that juncture.

    I don't know, though. I never try to pretend to be an expert in a field I'm not, that's just the perspective I have from my unqualified position.
     
  12. Lancer 1

    Lancer 1 Eternal Optimist

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,085
    Ratings:
    +341
    I don't think our roster is that subpar - despite having more than a dozen players in IR, many of them starters, we're still averaging over 30 points per game, with only 1 defensive & no special teams scores. Our defense has kept us in every game with a chance to win or tie at the end, although they have often been compromised by offensive miscues that give our opponents a great lift, and often a short field to navigate to score. Our special teams are nothing to brag about, but could improve with more experience and perhaps changes in some of the personnel.

    We're in every game late, and often leading and with a different "voice" coming from the top and changing the culture, this team could still possibly win a Wild Card berth, or even the Division.
     
  13. Samuel

    Samuel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Ratings:
    +11
    Teams with devastating injuries make the playoffs all the time. If the vikings were losing games instead of winning them, they would be talked about the way people talk about the bolts. Same for Seattle and Pittsburgh last year. They overcame those injuries. the fact that we are in all these games means that we have talent on the team. The fact we can't finish means we have a cowardly coach who goes catatonic in the 4th.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    15,200
    Ratings:
    +2,407
    Do teams literally have one devastating season ending injury to a starting player every week to open the first 5 weeks of the season?

    I'm not going to use them as an excuse but it's still a little misguided to downplay their impact.

    All the cliches in the world don't make this not a much much better team if Keenen Allen, Jason Verrett, and Danny Woodhead are still on the field.
     
  15. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    848
    Ratings:
    +358
    Considering our ownership is arguably weaker than our coaching, I have doubts he'd even be fired if we get hammered on Thursday
     
  16. ChargersDepressYou

    ChargersDepressYou BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +3
    Maybe its a conspiracy, they get paid more to lose.

    I will ask my GLP brothers
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Lancer 1

    Lancer 1 Eternal Optimist

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,085
    Ratings:
    +341
    Normally I would agree, but with the stadium vote approaching, I could easily see Telesco (at Spanos' direction) replacing McCoy if we embarrass ourselves on a national stage Thursday night.

    An effective interim coach would have 3 games before the vote and if he gives the team a spark that leads to noticeable improvement, that could have an impact on public perception of the team, and affect the outcome of the vote.
     
  18. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,097
    Ratings:
    +3,551
    I hope people don't really think Wiz is going to save this season. He's been fired twice already himself.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    15,200
    Ratings:
    +2,407
    Any other year and I'd be apt to agree with you, but this year they have reactionary fans who they are trying to convince to vote yes on a stadium vote.

    Even if I personally thought it'd be stupid to fire McCoy (I don't) I'd bet on him being fired after Thursday, baring a blowout win of sorts.
     
  20. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    15,200
    Ratings:
    +2,407
    Bill Belichick once got fired

    But no, I'm thinking Whiz is going to save the season. People are probably just hoping that in the interim we'd see an improvement over McCoy and in the long term we'd get a much better improvement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,108
    Ratings:
    +2,928

    First and foremost welcome to the board, we appreciate you joining us.

    Basically McCoy hasn't shown anything that was projected of him. When brought in he was thought to be the new offensive guru. He made Jake Delhomne look good, created an offense on the fly for Tim Tebow, resurrected Manning's career. The problem is that at no point in his time as head coach of San Diego has he shown any creativity or any ability to mold an offense. He's basically a sadder version of Marty Schottenheimer without (as noted) the powerful leadership that molded a crappy 4-12 debacle into a three time playoff contender. As much as I hate to admit it, I was absolutely wrong in believing Frank Reich was the cause of all the offensive woes.

    This is the look of a team that has given up. Numerous players were pissed at him for not going for it on 4th down which led to the botched FG. I can count of the number of times he's been aggressive or surprising with play calling on one hand. It's kind of weird that in cases he should be predictable (take a big lead and run it down people's throats) he gets crazy and at times he should be aggressive (step on opposition's throats and put them down, making changes at half time) he is very passive.

    As I said I don't think as a team this is a BAD team. We clearly have a LOT of talent even with key injuries. If the team can buy into a proper coach and a proper leader, you could see a 2004 like rebirth.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,336
    Ratings:
    +1,725
    What happened to Kubiak?
     
  23. Samuel

    Samuel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Ratings:
    +11
    In hospital because of chronic migraines. Elway gave him week of. ST coordinator interim
     
  24. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,103
    Ratings:
    +532
    Weird migraine issue with extreme symptoms. He's had stroke trouble in the past.
     
  25. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,336
    Ratings:
    +1,725
    I hope that the Donks don't end up making a movie about it. You know, "Win one for the Kubz."
     
  26. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,291
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Or, as Chargers fans call it... Dunlap Syndrome.
     
  27. Samuel

    Samuel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Ratings:
    +11
    I thought that was Addae syndrome.
     
  28. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    Okay...okay...I'll try your rose colored glasses one more time...
    Screen Shot 2016-10-10 at 6.01.05 PM.png
     
  29. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,291
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    No, that would be MAD........ Mutual Assured Destruction syndrome.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,103
    Ratings:
    +532
    Watching the Panthers take a lead because Ron Rivera called Mike Tolbert's number on 4th & goal... that stings.
     

Share This Page