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The obligatory way too early DRAFT GRADE thread...

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by matilack, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    3 - DE Joey Bosa (6'5 270): B+ I personally don't see Joey Bosa as a top 5 prospect, but the good news about picking so high is when you reach a little you can still get a very good football player. Probably going to be a fan favorite for a good long time.

    35 - TE Hunter Henry (6'5 252): A Fills a big a need with the best player available. Henry is big, fast, and most importantly can BLOCK. He reminds me a lot of Jason Witten on the field, and his measurables are on par with Rob Gronkowski. Better heir for Gates than Green ever was.

    66 - C Max Tuerk (6'5 298): A Extremely mobile and athletic center who fits our zone scheme WAAAAY better than Watt and Robinson. Reputation for being a smart guy who should pick up the scheme quickly, and I loved his comments about Nick Hardwick.

    102 - ILB Josh Perry (6'4 254): B Tough thumper 2 down ILB to backup Denzel Perryman. He's going to struggle in coverage there's no doubt about it, but as a short yardage LB I'm not sure you could do much better in this draft.

    175 - LB/S Jatavis Brown (5'11 227): C Basically the complete opposite of Josh Perry, I assume Brown is here to replace Kavell Connor. He's not very physical, he's a shoddy tackler, and I don't see 100% effort on every play. BUT he can run like an MFr, and should find a home covering RBs out of the backfield and manning middle of the field in zone coverage. Better athlete by far than Dzubner, just not sure he's a better football player.

    179 - P Drew Kaser (6'2 212): A I don't study punters, but I have no problem drafting them if they're special. I like everything I've heard about this guy so far. He will save us a bunch of cap space on the most injury prone punter in the league.

    198 - FB Derek Watt (6'2 236): C I like getting a blocking FB so I'm not going to give this pick an F. It's a lost art that we need to re-embrace for the sake of Melvin Gordon if nothing else. But like I said earlier he's basically a bigger/slower Jacob Hester. Jack of all trades, master of none, will make the roster the same way David Johnson did....lack of true competition.

    224 - OG Donovan Clark (6'4 315): B Versatility on OL is huge for us, and this guy has legitimate experience playing everywhere but center. I'm not sure he makes the 53, but he should get to the PS safely.



    Final Grade: B+ I think we got 3 immediate starters in Bosa, Tuerk, and of course Kaser; plus a heavy contributor and eventual starter in Hunter Henry. If it goes how it should this is going to be a really solid draft, perhaps our best since 2004 or 2005. If we can get something more than quality backup snaps out of Perry, Brown, Watt or Clark just consider it gravy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
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  2. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I would grade as follows:

    Round 1: D. Bosa, while well above average talent for the average draft position, is below average talent for the #3 overall position. He is also a bad scheme fit in terms of the Chargers base 3-4 defense. With the entire non-QB board to choose from, Tom Telesco chose Bosa. There were numerous better candidates on the board.

    Round 2: D-. Henry is not close to being good value at #35 overall. Especially when we are talking about a near first round pick, Henry does not excel at anything. He is a very ordinary blocker and a very ordinary receiver. Some very good DL players were available and the team passed on all of them.

    Round 3: C+. The choice of Tuerk fills a positional need, but the C chosen leaves something to be desired. Watt, the team's current starter, has an issue with being pushed back. Tuerk's comparatively higher center of gravity and lack of core strength leave him susceptible to being pushed back as well. Also, Tuerk is coming off of an injury. If the team was going to pick a C in round 3, then Seumalo would have been a better candidate. Or perhaps the team could have taken Boehm in round 4.

    Round 4: A+. Perry is a rock solid ILB--big, fast and sure tackling. Absent an injury, I expect him to win the starting ILB job next to Perryman (creating the Perry and Perryman tandem) before the end of the season. This is tremendous value for the 4th round and we ended up getting Perry a full round later than I suggested we select him. It goes to show what can be done with a 4th round pick. This was Tom Telesco's best pick in the 2016 NFL Draft.

    Round 5: B+. This is a creative pick by Tom Telesco in which he has taken a speedy player that looks like he will play ILB, complementing larger, slower players like Perry and Perryman. Brown has some size and consistency issues, but he could end up as an inexpensive way to fill an important role on the team. Nice pick here.

    Round 6 (179): A-. Drafting a punter was an absolute need and Kaser is a very good choice. The only slight quibble is that in balancing the need for a P versus when to take one, the team might have pulled the triger half a round too early, which is the cause for slight grade reduction.

    Round 6 (198): C-. I question the need to draft a FB at all as I think the team should have been able to see that there would be good FBs available as UDFAs. I further question the choice of Watt, who is not all that athletic and not the best of the best of the blocking FBs. A small positive is that Watt played with Gordon in college.

    Round 7: B. Although not an exciting pick, Clark represents an above average pick in that as a 7th round pick, he has a legitimate chance to make the team as a reserve. Clark is good value for the pick.

    Overall Draft Grade: C. Weighting the rounds using a multiplier of 7 for the first round down to one for the 7th round and converting traditional letter grades to their traditional numerical counterparts yields a numerical grade just barely above 2.0, but not nearly high enough to be a C+.

    Day 3 was by far Telesco's best day of the draft with 4 of 5 draft picks receiving a B or better grade. Unfortunately in terms of the overall grade, though, the earlier rounds in which Telesco's picks were not, all things considered, very good really drove down the value of the team's draft as a whole.
     
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  3. Cheapseats

    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

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    Pass... on a Pass / Fail grade, details to follow in about 3 years. Seriously, I thought this was a solid draft for the Chargers. Let the position battles begin!
     
  4. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Curious mati, did you classify either of Jaylon Smith or Darron Lee "shoddy tacklers" as well?
     
  5. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I agree it was a solid draft. I'm seriously concerned about the S position as a whole though. It could be our achilles heal all season.
     
  6. Boltz_from_Oz

    Boltz_from_Oz BoltTalker

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    Agreed. And missed the chance to get Jeremy Cash as well.

    Ironic that most pundits had us picking Ramsey...and we didn't even draft a safety of any kind.
     
  7. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Jaylon Smith improved from year to year, but in 2014 I would have called him a pretty poor tackler. Darron Lee is still a shoddy tackler for sure, I'm not his biggest fan, he's definitely a scheme oriented player with some bust factor.

    And Jatavis Brown is a shoddy tackler, who plays a lower level of competition than Smith and Lee. He will find out the hard way that in the NFL you can't use just your shoulder to bring down a guy like Chris Ivory. Needless to say Brown is neither as big nor as physical as those guys when it comes to taking on blocks either, and I wouldn't even necessarily classify Lee as "physical".

    I would argue securely that Josh Perry is a better tackler than all 3 today, albeit not quite the athlete.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
  8. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    I give the draft a B. Solid in that it addressed needs... and this team had plenty of holes to fill. I agree that safety is a bit of a question mark. I hope we find a safety before training camp begins. The thought of getting our starting safety off someone's cut list is a little scary.
    Getting a smart center was a good move. I hope he lives long and prospers in that roll for years to come. I'm tired of the turnstile we've had there since Nick retired.
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    And Jatavis Brown is likely to play safety and not ILB (Annie even noted that Telesco said as much in the post-draft presser) - so a lot of the comparison straight up with Josh Perry is pretty moot. Does he need to learn to wrap better? Absolutely; that's an assessment you can level at more college LB's and DB's than not. It was a worthy criticism of Perryman coming out last year. However, while yes it's a small sample, if you look at the Senior Bowl (and exposure to pro-level coaching if only for a little over a week) Brown's tackling improved... and he showed out against more than "lower level competition." Right down to needing to clean up the missed tackles, he compares favorably to a TJ Ward type, except that he actually has smoother hips than Ward does/did and is actually able to run with slot-guys in coverage which Ward can't do very well.
     
  10. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    We've got Lowery at FS and Addae at SS with Adrian Phillips and Darrel Stuckey as backups. Adrian McDonald has a really good chance to push and make this roster. They also like that kid Dexter McCoil who is listed as a LB but they are looking at him as possibly a safety. I agree we need another veteran in here to compete but I think the front 7 is going to be way more stout taking more of the stress off the secondary this year.
     
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  11. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    How often do players move to "smaller positions" (if you will) where it actually works out?

    We debate on if a guy is a CB or an S...he usually ends up at S.
    We debate on if a guy is a OG or an OT....he usually ends up at OG.
    We debate on if a guy is a S or a LB...he usually ends up at LB.

    Ward was one of my guys in that 2010 draft where he went quite bit earlier than most projected, and I think it's safe to say that while at Oregon he played around 200-205 lbs; Point being there was never any debate about him moving to LB. I saw him cover the deep middle at times, and I saw him cover receivers regularly, and he played SS but he was built more like a stocky CB than a LB.

    It's just a hard move for me to project at the moment. I'll believe it when I see it.
     
  12. Slam

    Slam BoltTalker

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    my thoughts, with pressuring the quarterback... this will mean less time for our CBs and safeties, which may make them look better.

    with some positive changes, and potential leaders drafted in Bosa or Perry, I'm hoping this team turns a 180 with effort and finishing games. we were in it in a ton of games last year.

    hopefully the chemistry thing pays off for Melvin gordon's sake, I'm apprehensive but would love him to have a turn around season.

    perhaps this raises our oline to play up to their potential and allows PR to pick teams apart.


    otherwise I was the most surprised and slightly annoyed by Bosa pick, after watching a ton of tape, I am excited.

    might even get a bosa jersey for my girl who is a Michigan fan, just to mess with her.


    I REALLY hope Max Tuerk is 100% , he can turn our oline around
     
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  13. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

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    B.

    I like Bosa, can see the talent, but am unsure of fit at this point. He has a high ceiling in terms of potential though so good there. Henry I question the value of where he was picked at, but I like him as a player. Tuerk I think is good value, definitely think he'd have gone higher if he wasn't injured. Perry I thought was very good value. Don't know anything about Brown so can't really judge there. Like the idea of a fullback, think it's cool that it's Melvin's team-mate so hopefully this benefits our run game as a whole. Disagree with the need to draft a punter, I'm not sure he'd have been drafted at all if we didn't pick him there. Not sure on last pick, never heard of him.
     
  14. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    All I know is, Pagano got a lot of chess pieces in this draft. This is a do or die season for him with some of the weapons he just got in this draft. Obviously, some won't be starters, but he has to move these players around and play them to their strengths.
     
  15. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    As far as chess pieces go though, our S position is a wasteland of mediocrity. I have to question the decision not to go out and sign a guy like Reggie Nelson if they knew they had no intention of keeping Mike Scifres on the payroll.

    A guy like Donte Whitner is worth serious consideration right now. He had a good 2015 campaign despite having a really bad team around him. Maybe someone else gets released in the next few weeks due to cap concerns, but it's not looking good.

    If Walter Thurmond decides not to retire I'd jump on it.
     
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    I'm not as worried as others.

    I think we wait it out another month, check in on guys like Ryan Mundy and Louis Delmas and see where it goes from there.
     
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  17. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    For me I'd go

    3 -DE Joey Bosa (6'5 270): B+

    35 -TE Hunter Henry (6'5 252): C+

    66 -C Max Tuerk (6'5 298): A-

    102 - ILB Josh Perry (6'4 254): B+

    175 - LB/S Jatavis Brown (5'11 227): A+

    179 - P Drew Kaser (6'2 212): B+

    198 - FB Derek Watt (6'2 236): C-

    224 - OG Donovan Clark (6'4 315): C+

    Overall: B+
     
  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    How often has our GM said that he "could play some" of that other position? Because that's what Telesco said (I have no reason to believe Annie, of all people, would lie).

    5'11", 227 is built more like a safety than a LB in today's league. You also saw Ward try and cover receivers (he'd carry guys deep after they were passed off to him, but he was underwhelming at best in the slot) regularly, but he didn't do it particularly well. Brown has manned the slot and quite well. He's effectively the same player that Su'a Cravens is and people had no issue with slot Su'a in as a SS.
     
  19. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    3 - DE Joey Bosa (6'5 270): B Only because we did not take Ramsey here, who I felt was more talented and filled an obvious positional need with Weddle leaving the fray. I cannot argue with the pick from a talent standpoint--even if he has a lower ceiling than a DeForest Buckner, he has a better track record with regards to consistency and his skills have as much to do with his technique as much as they do with his strength. DeForest is a physical freak, but I would rather have stability with a pick this high, even if his ceiling is lower. Bosa will stop the run. Bosa will get after the QB. Bosa will make the possibility of Ingram going down easier to deal with. And if the squad is so healthy that we will need to move him around our scheme, will anyone be complaining? (besides ChainCrusher)

    35 - TE Hunter Henry (6'5 252): B A reach who we probably could have traded down at least 8 spots to get. That said, he seems like a perfect fit for the Whisenhunt offense. He can block adequately. But more importantly, he does not drop passes. He will be the security blanket for Rivers 10 yards out and has the size and skill to ensure a connection can be made. Far more important than big play ability, and I think he fits the Bolts better than most teams. Probably a C grade if this were not the case for the reach alone.

    66 - C Max Tuerk (6'5 298): A- Once again, a slight reach, but given how important he will be to the line if he is healthy, I do not mind. He has top-level talent, PFF had him graded out at over +9 in just over 100 snaps before his injury. I see the Hardwick comparisons on paper, and if he is healthy, seeing them in practice is a likely scenario.

    102 - ILB Josh Perry (6'4 254): A Run-stopping machine, 2-down LB, and a rare instance in the draft where a player fell to us. Reminds me a lot of Perryman when he was drafted, and if you ask me, he was better than advertised in coverage. I am not sure if Perry will surprise in this regard, but if he can be an ace against the run, he will be well worth the pick.

    175 - LB/S Jatavis Brown (5'11 227): C- I will believe his ability to cover NFL TEs and RBs when I see it, but if he can, he is theoretically the perfect player to sub into nickel and dime situations. He just seems like a player who can just as easily contribute nothing, but in the late 5th round, that is OK.

    179 - P Drew Kaser (6'2 212): A Obvious need. The guy can punt 60+ yards with ease, pin teams inside the 20 regularly, and broke Lechler's punt average record.

    198 - FB Derek Watt (6'2 236): D Did not need to use a pick on a FB here, but if he somehow gets Gordon started, he will be worth it. Just color me skeptical.

    224 - OG Donovan Clark (6'4 315): B+ Anyone who has a reasonable shot to make the 53 as a reserve O lineman is gravy in the 7th round given the infirmary we had last year. Better than wasting the pick on a WR who will never be used.



    Final Grade: B+ This was a "win-now" draft given the age of Rivers, and even though players with relatively low ceilings were taken, most if not all of them were drafted with the ability to help the team this season by filling complementary roles that are important to the existing scheme with the exception of Bosa, who should be talented enough to fill any role given to him as a PFF +. My only gripe is the lack of a safely drafted, but the CB talent we have is 3-deep anyway, and I have always placed more stock in the quality of the front 7 than the secondary. While the front 3 are still too questionable for my tastes, the LB corps should provide stability against the run and the pass given the sun of our new additions and our existing talent.
     
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  20. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Just want to throw in there I think it's pretty doubtful Henry would have fallen much farther. Giants, Bills, and Ravens all could have justified it. Keeping in mind the Ravens didn't trade back from 36 until after we sent our card in, and then traded back again from 38.
     
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  21. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    All in all it was a very good draft at face value with a lot of new parts to tinker with. My guess is they are going to be trying to duplicate a Stiller type defense to keep the opponent on their toes at all times. It should be fun to watch as this thing comes together.
     
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  22. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    No doubt Henry wouldn't be there at #66. How do you think McCoy and Co. use him in year one and is this Gates last year?
     
  23. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    That's a good question. They tried to use Green- but the guy kept getting hurt. We used a TE as a blocker a good hunk of the time. Like to see Henry used as a three down type guy we can give Rivers a target in the middle of the field. Hope Gates will be good at training and developing his replacement.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I suspect Gates will take more snaps off this year to keep his legs fresher through the season.

    When you look through the other TEs of this draft there is really no one else remotely close to Henry. And when you think about how much money Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen got, Henry is a steal for any team that has a need at TE.
     
  25. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Really not meaning to pick on you, but how do you get a B+ overall?

    Even if you didn't assign greater weight to the earlier round like I did, you have 3 grades that are C-something. When I straight average those, the result is a B (actually barely under, but rounding up to a B versus a B- in a traditional 4 point system).
     
  26. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    If you assign all - grades the highest they can be while still being a - (84 for B- for instance) and the pluses the highest (89 for B+) it adds up to 693 out of 800 (I gave a 100 to the A+) and that's a 86.625, or B+
     
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  27. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Mark Barron was a Safety who converted to LB which worked out pretty darn good, Same could be said for Deon Buchannon.

    No reason to think An Athletic LB can't be an in the box safety at the next level, ideally the kid is going to earn a spot by playing ST's. But I actually really like that we got him. The kid looks exciting.

    I still think Lowery and Addae are our starting safety's and am fine with it. I think they'll be fine there and applaud Telesco for not panicking and forcing himself to take a guy just because.
     
  28. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Nice try, but 84.5 is the dead middle of the B range. 84 is not a B-, 94 is not an A- and 74 is not a C-. So not even with your both hands on the scale approach do you get the result are trying to push. And obviously you had to fudge because the numbers support the grade being a B.

    Using mid ranges for the grades given and your 800 point scale (not trying to skew the result as you did), the result is 680.25 total points, which is an average of 85.03125. That's a B all day long as I said previously and not a B+.
     
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  29. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Name a LB who's done it and I'll buy in.
     
  30. Kwak

    Kwak ....

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    Overall its a B+.
    Bosa - They got better on the DL with Bosa, but thought Buckner was a better fit. Definitely a shocker moment on Day 1 and get a +1 for making the cowboy's war room go 'option B'. I think the chargers crapped on their first choice.
    Henry - We need more depth at TE with Gates getting old and Green leaving. Solid Run blocker and didn't drop a pass(51 catches) in 2015.
    Turek - C was a gaping hole and if Tuerk's knee is solid after surgery and he adds on a few lbs, he could be the answer.
    Perry - adds a good player with upside for depth at LB. Brings a solid college career and leadership.
    Brown - looks more like a Safety prospect than LB.
    Kaser - Best punter in the NCAA in 2015. Posted college numbers like Lechler, but TBD if he can match his pro.
    Watt - Just a Gordon's buddy pick.
    Clark - Adds a versatile OL with potential.

    Check back after 2018 to see who is still on the roster and has some accolades.
     

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