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The Official: There is always next season; Thread

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    OK, so anyone doubt we are in rebuilding mode?

    Needs:
    RM24 has the talent, but cant shake the injuries. He needs to go to the FA Market.
    So a starting RB is needed...

    Hardwhick is probably done. He has been considering retiring for what? The last 2 or 3 seasons?
    Need a starting Center.

    Clarry might not be back, but he was expected to be a backup this season. We need a solid starter at Tackle and move Fluker in to guard.

    How much longer will we keep Freeney? He has not had the impact on the D that we hoped and is long in the tooth. LB or DL is a need.

    Rivers... How much longer can he play. Players like P Manning, and T Brady have had long careers and one would hope Rivers does as well. That said he played though back and rib injuries, is it time to start looking for the next franchise passer?

    What do you see the needs as?
     
  2. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    Needs:
    Rt: fluker struggles against speed rusher , has so feet, we should kick him into rg

    Nt-lissemore is a joke, and I'm not sure carrethers can stay healthy.

    Cb: wright sucks at ever position he plays.

    Wr: we struggle with ka gone, if we paired him with another playmaker were deadly
     
  3. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    I believe nothing short of a comptete rebuild is gonna bring excitement to this franchise. Rivers and Gates need to be package out for a good selection of draft picks. Fire Mike McCoy and release all non promising players( Butler, Brown(s), and Freeney etc.) This status quo i am afraid is gonna get the chargers out of San Diego. So building a winner is dire and if Tom Telesco I am writing the pinks slips to lot a people after this game.
     
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  4. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Haha
     
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  5. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Let me see...

    --Meachem, Gaither, and Cox free up about $11M in cap space. Add in Marshall, English, and McClain for about $14M total. We should have the ability to plug solid players into our depth.

    --Fire Reich. His execution of McCoy's philosophy is laughable--you cannot ignore pieces of the offense for long stretches when the strength of the team last year was utilizing all of the moving parts.

    --Brown is not a feature back, but a decent committee option with Woodhead and another power back who can stay HEALTHY. This is not Ryan Mathews, and we should seek to replace him with both a 1-year stopgap and a draft pick who could be groomed for the future. Frank Gore for 1 year would be excellent with limited action. If we could get Mark Ingram cheaply, I would not be adverse to it.

    --Butler's contract prevents him from being cut. I sure hope he reclaims his form or that he was playing with some secret nagging injury in 2014. I am just glad that the team has depth at the position and that T'eo made huge strides forward.

    --Re-sign King Dunlap and Brandon Flowers. This is essential.
     
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  6. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's the answer. Back to back winning years. A franchise QB. A decent mix of veterans and young emerging players. Let's blow it all up. Trade the vets. Pink slip the coaching staff. FIRE SALE!!!!!!!!!!

    If the Spanoses wanted to move out of SD, this is exactly what they would do. The only way the Chargers stay in SD is if they get a huge groundswell of public support. That only happens if they win now.

    I can't tell if you are intellectually challenged or just emotionally incapable of handling disappointment. Perhaps both?
     
  7. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Add Justin forsetts name to the list of fa rbs I would give 2-3 mil a yr deal that could end up a 3 yr deal.

    So glad that there is solid potential FA RBs to be had beyond those that come with domestic issues.

    But AP should be a lock for Dallas after that jerry Jones tape slipped of him sayin they would love him there and do whatever they could to facilitate the desire.
     
  8. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Let the dust settle down and get a clear look at what went right and what brought failure, then go from there.
     
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  9. Cheapseats

    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

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    Wow! I wasn't expecting to see this thread this quickly...
    Since you asked:
    1) An interior offensive line, definitely new guards and figure out if Watt is the center of the future if Hardwick calls it a career.
    2) An absolute beast at running back...offer Mathews a short, incentive laden contract and let him earn a spot in camp and the preseason next season.
    3) A couple of genuine pass rushers, Freeney isn't getting any younger.
    4) Upgrades at middle linebacker, Te'o and Conner are looking good...what happened to Butler this season???
    5) Upgrades at Cornerback and Safety - Verrett, Flowers and Weddle are a good start.
    6) The second coming of Jamal Williams at nose tackle
    ...and
    7) An offensive play book that doesn't fit on a 3 x 5 card.
    ... and finally...
    8) A training and medical staff that can keep people healthy for 16 games.

    Telesco is probably already working the phones.
     
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  10. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    No showing a younger more promising team is what is gonna drive up support. This is a old and tired chargers team aside from a couple of young players. Trying to win with the current quo is isnt possible. Rivers is gonna have to learn a whole new system and it be a diaster. It be better if we salavage what is at best gonna be a annually wild card teaser of a team. Getting a young promising squad is more reasonable than trying to win with conservative coach and a injured ageing QB.
     
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  11. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I'll color code it...

    Red Alert Needs -
    C -
    I don't believe Watt is the long term answer at center, we need him at LG when Rinehart walks.
    RG - Either Fluker or a draft pick doesn't matter. The Troutman/Clary era is done.
    CB - Wright had yet another awful season, Flowers is a UFA, and Williams seems to be just a guy. Even if we can retain Flowers we still need 2 more competent players.

    Orange (Bordering on panic) -
    DE -
    Reyes is AWFUL, consistently so, and he's not even getting to the QB anymore which was the only thing salvaging his tenure as a starter. Palepoi, Matthews, Scafe, Lissmore...not answers. We need at least 1, maybe 2.

    Yellow (far from safe) -
    SS - Gilchrist will never be the answer but I still have some hope Addae might be. Still, neither can cover TEs.
    NT - Carrethers has shown some potential, but not enough that we can ignore NT.
    OLB - Freeney is old, Johnson should be cut because he doesn't do much. Attoachu and Ingram need a rotational guy.
    RB - Donald Brown deserves to get cut, Oliver and Woodhead are too similar, we need a workhorse weather or not RM is given a short term re-signing.
    WR - is an interesting one as well. If we could find a legit #1 to pair with Allen I wouldn't be opposed to spending what it might cost.
     
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  12. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it. We are in re-loading mode. This is a good team. It needs to be transformed into a great team. Upgrades to OL, DL and WR could have us challenging for a title next year, assuming we re-sign Flowers and Dunlap.
     
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  13. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    So having a team like the Jaguars is what will get the Chargers a new stadium? LOL. OK. I think we need to follow Denver's blueprint. They had a perennial 8-8/9-7 team and they brought in vets to fill holes and make them a SB contender. Rivers has at least a few good years left. Getting rid of him would be a huge mistake.
     
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  14. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    Golf clubs all around, then a trip to Hawaii for a couple of weeks.
     
  15. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Burn down the Mission!!!!!!!!!
     
  16. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that we need to implement the "green font for sarcasm posts" rule in here !!!!

    Not sure some people quite "get it" ............. :whistling: [​IMG]
     
  17. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    This is where you need to subtract players (many of whom are in the last year of their contract) that make this team worse. Guys like Wright and Gilchrist for example. You resign some of your key players like Flowers/Dunlap and then you add with some of that awesome cap space you now have. This is absolutely not a tear down or a rebuild, it's basically a reload.
     
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  18. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  19. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    My personal opinion is that this season is pretty much a waste unless the top brass wakes up to the fact that this team's biggest need is a pair of guards. We need beef to give PR time and keep him healthy, to give running back ________ some lanes, and give our defense a boost by controlling the clock. Undrafted rookie free agents and practice squad castoffs ain't cutting it.
    IMHO everything else is downstream of this need and if they spent all of this year's draft and half of next year's to somehow acquire bookend Pro Bowl guards, the investment would pay off.
    Tom Telsco, I ask you, Where's the Beef?
     
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  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It's a reload, but again... folks appear to have tunnel-visioned a bit during the final couple Norval years (and I can't say as I necessarily blamed him as he and Aj were certainly an imposed glass-ceiling that was going to limit any growth this team could make- as the later lost his knack for consistently identifying talent outside of premium picks and the former wouldn't know how to identify staffers that could develop players that aren't quarterbacks to save his life). Though along the way the division actually became consistently better - Denver got the kind of cap space, league-cachet, and cap space to become the NFL incarnation of the early 2000's Lakers and the 2010's Miami Heat... they could dangle low-guarantee contracts in front of ring-hunting or even "contract-hunting" vets who would count on the exposure to boost their value. KC put together (almost entirely through the draft, but also through proper talent development and coaching) one hell of a defense (not entirely dissimilar to the one we boasted under Wade) and have been able to ride a highly productive running back to relative success.

    Fact is, you don't win in this league with average-at-best trenches. The lone outlier in the past ten or so years of this has been Green Bay's last SB win - and even then they got at least one starter back and fit for the playoff run, and were still able to lean on a very effective defensive trench. Our trenches were pretty heavily neglected for the 10-ish years between Butler and Telesco - particularly so in the later half. Occasionally we would find a temporary gem via free agency, but their long-term consistency largely wasn't to be - or AJ and Dean just refused to pay them. The number of playmakers you have don't mean diddly if your trenches suck.

    I think people are overrating how much cap space we're going to have available to us - particularly when you start factoring in how much other "fringe-contender" and contending teams have as well. Of the teams that made the playoffs this season the most notable free agent signings were vets on prove-it deals (Revis -> New England, Talib & Ware -> Denver if you actually look at the structure of the contracts, Cromartie -> Arizona) or vets taking slightly lower value to play on a contender (Peppers -> Green Bay, Ward -> Denver, Steve Smith -> Baltimore). otherwise, these teams are largely where they're at because of savvy drafting and developing and hitting far more than they missed for more than just the past two years - while actually having homegrown talent worth re-signing who continued to play like such after getting paid.

    The health issue, I really have no answer to because I really can't figure out what the issue is. Some guys are injuring themselves because of crappy technique (e.g. Addae today), some are just more fragile than the average bear (Mathews), others have been unfortunate injuries resulting from shoddy play from the opposition (which you realyl can't protect a ton against - and I'm not even saying it's intentional by the opposition so much as just playing overly hard) and the fact that we're not a club that[s going to get the benefit of being protected by the league and officials (this is a pretty small group anyway). The best solution at the moment is to boost the caliber of our depth and the mentality of our team (if you don't play defensively - i.e. trying to avoid getting hurt - you're less likely to get hurt). But OL's are dependent upon chemistry and it's near impossible to cultivate that when you're swapping out someone from the line with each passing week and often at least once or twice in the middle of the game every Sunday.
     
  21. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Trenches are indeed where games are won and lost. They make the skill position players better, and it does not work they other way around unless you are Bob Sanders being a run-stopping machine in the playoffs...or an elite quarterback opening up the run game (but I disagree with this, since QBs usually only perform at an elite level if they are protected by the trench).

    How are the trenches right now? Not great, but not nearly as bad as one may think.

    On the offensive side, Dunlap and Fluker are starting O-linemen on a championship team. Moving Fluker to G would make it easier for Watt to play C...the key is to find a solid RT, be it through the draft or FA...and Telesco finding Dunlap 2 years ago makes me trust him to find underrated depth at this position on other teams if need be.

    But on the defensive side, although Reyes played better towards the end, he cannot stop the run nearly as well as even an average replacement. Liuget is a keeper, and who knows in Carrethers can succeed. If we should invest in this team, it should be on the D-line, spending money to shore it up. A 3-4 scheme NEEDS the ability to have the front 3 block running lanes and to free up space for LBs and safeties to make plays.

    I think the O-line was simply a case of "hard luck" this year in terms of injuries and is close to being where it needs to be...not a Top 5 line, but one that would work well with the quick slants and medium routes that are McCoy's bread and butter. The D-line? I think we are 2 replacements away from making this defense exceptionally-good.
     
  22. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Need another WR that can win 1 v 1 besides Allen. I love Kevin White's game, picking at 18, he might be there for us in the 1st round. I think people are really minimizing this problem. Allen is a sure #1 possession receiver, but a player like White can break it open and take the top off. He'd be a great complement to 13's game. Floyd can't beat 1 v 1's, and I prefer Royal (if re-signed, and should be) in the slot. I really like Inman for depth, possession receiver like Allen with strong hands. Ajirotutu must be retained as well.

    Feel as if 24's days are numbered. Think he's done here. Unless he gets a 1 year, prove it deal. I'd draft considerably high here now. I wasn't so sure on drafting a RB high a few weeks ago, but we could use one that stays healthy and is effective.

    Need to continue to retool this OL. Dunlap needs to be re-signed, Fluker needs an offseason to build his game and we need to retool the interior OL. Find Watt's best position, and build from there. Whether you get both a C/G and G in the draft or 1 of each in free agency, need to make something happen there.

    Defensive side of the ball, we need a DE that can penetrate and isn't put on skates by opposing OLs. Also, Ricardo Mathews is a good depth resigning as is Dwight Freeney (if he doesn't retire and comes at the minimum) and Andrew Gachkar as well. Brandon Flowers needs to be locked up, and I'd take a flier on Shareece Wright for another year. SS needs to be addressed, Addae looks like he may be too injure prone with his reckless techniques.
     
  23. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It still amazes me that people think that "tackle has slow feet... just kick him inside to guard and he'll be great there" is that simple. It's not, particularly not in D'Alessandris' blocking scheme - refer to Alabama and Wisconsin, it's a power-zone scheme and requires the guards to pull and block in space and on the run... Fluker ain't doing that.

    This isn't Madden where you just change the guy's position designation and his rating suddenly goes up.
     
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  24. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    So what you're really saying...is Fluker was a bad draft pick.:coffee:

    Can't say I totally disagree with that assessment. He's a great guy, super tough, love the attitude and leadership, but he's a liability in pass protection and to be honest he's been just as inconsistent in run blocking. If he's an equally bad fit at guard, then what do we really have?
     
  25. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    We are #17 in the draft and I'd like it if we went Defense in the 1st. There is promise on defense and if we build on it. We could build a Seattle like a Defense and in the later rounds grab a RB and WR.
     
  26. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    No, I'm saying that Fluker isn't a tackle that can be left on an island with a revolving door next to him at RG and expected to cover for that guy and mind his own assignment. His kickstep isn't tremendously fast, but if he gets a hand on a guy, typically that guy's in the fight of his life. With the exception of blue-chippers (and even in that case it's pretty rare) you can't judge OL off of 1-2 years of pro performance. The 1st year they're typically acclimating to the size/speed differential from the NCAA to the pros. That was less of an issue for Fluker because he was coming out of a pro-style offense (into a near-identical blocking scheme) and was already as strong as most vets. 2nd year for OL is almost always their most difficult because opposing teams actually have tape on them - they chart their tendencies, they can actually scheme to try and gain advantages over them. You judge a young OL off his 3rd and 4th years (notice how Tyron Smith didn't start to really show out until his junior year as a pro, same went for David Decastro).

    Reich's play-calling sold Fluker up the river - rarely given a TE chip, most sweeps to the right were called out of shotgun or on delays not allowing Fluker to downblock but instead expecting him to kickstep, shuffle, turn, and seal, and little to no adjustments made when teams started lining up their speedy edge-rusher in the 9-tech (it was literally reminiscent of Norv leaving Clary out there by his lonesome when Denver lined up Von Miller a yard and a half wide of his outside shoulder ever damn play). Also, while he played through it a number of times, folks who paid attention to the injury report this season likely noted that Fluker tended to show up early on in a number of weeks with a knee injury ever since early September.

    Fluker's biggest issues this season were largely a spike in false-starts (which could suggest that he was favoring that knee injury and trying tohedge to make up the gap... or he could just be dumb and bad at following the snap-count) and an increase in illegal hands to the face - which the league put a larger emphasis on have officials call this season. The great issue was that he couldn't just recover and try to run his rusher past the pocket because the interior line got no push (or just plain got blown past) and Rivers had no pocket to step up into. Get a RG next to Fluker who can keep the pocket from collapsing in on Rivers in the first 3 seconds and Fluker should be just fine. Not outstanding, but very much serviceable.
     
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  27. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    What I see when Fluker gets beat is a man who is simply not quick enough to cover the edge. And the problem I'm having, is that is exactly what I expected to see from him at this level, so I'm reluctant to agree with you that it's everyone fault but his own. Dunlap plays next to Rinehart who was equally as bad this year, in the same offense, with the same OC, in front of the same QB...and he had a stellar season. So why is Dunlap not affected?

    If it's injuries then fine, but there is no way from my vantage point I could say for sure if that is a valid excuse. Through his first 2 seasons I'd give Fluker a C+ just based on what we as fans can see from our couch. (Dunlap I give an A/A-)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
  28. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    Every year, same story: BEEF.

    No line, no good.
     
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  29. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    18th .......................couldn't even win a coin toss after the game. [​IMG]

    (* A coin flip will determine picks No. 17 and 18.)
     
  30. TheAutumnWind

    TheAutumnWind BoltTalker

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    David Shaw...Offensive Coordinator. Chargers running Jumbo with Green and Gates...let's start the campaign, and make it happen.
     
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