1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

The Philosophy Thread

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Sandolf, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument. In more casual speech, by extension, "philosophy" can refer to "the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group".

    ----

    I nicked this broad brush definition form Wikipedia as a launching point. Those who enjoy the point counterpoint of an in depth debate should post their concerns here.

    (obviously within the guidelines of what is permitted on this website).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    I consider myself fortunate/lucky to have majored in Philosophy at Cal,
    (in lieu of learning any useful job skills!) and the art remains extremely dear to me.
    I'm still intrigued by epistemology, love ethics & (non-symbolic) logic the way Blewy loves iMacs...
    or presidential candidates love Reagan in pre-primary Republican debates.

    My hugely pro-philosophy bias thus laid bare, I must admit to having some
    squirmy thoughts, re. the fit in a Charger forum, just given that emotion & echo
    (so common to sports discussion) seem to usually overwhelm calm, reasoned, rational argument.

    But, what the Hell?!? :) I reckon if "footy" has an arm in Bolt Talk... :tup:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  3. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    The interesting things about football forums Lance is that they bring together a broad cross section of people who would otherwise have no ocassion to converse. There is a purity to the gene pool in every area except football. That is apparent by the level of inbreeding you deal with on the main boards of all of the forums. Hence the underground "Off Topic" culture which makes a fine meeting place imo.
     
  4. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    :)
    I did a double-take at "purity to the gene pool." :confused:

    Anyway, I'm off to get some work done...would love it if this vine bears fruit...
     
  5. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Hard to say really. I hope so too. Politics may be somewhat out of bounds. Likely so too would be the politics of running a football forum. A rational discussion should be more devoid of emotion. When emotions run high, the man with the shears is going to come and cut the vine.

    What is your take on emotional maturity in the context of good leadership? Kirk or Spock?
     
  6. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    8,038
    Ratings:
    +1,018
    Can I vote Piccard, or is that a proxy vote for Spock?
     
  7. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,427
    Ratings:
    +417
    A good leader sets the example in everything that they do and always does the right thing.
    Can see how a decision that is made in the moment will affect things in the future.
    Listens and supports their staff, ok with input but still makes decisions based on their experiences.
    Cares about people and their feelings but can make the tough decision.

    A good leader will say when they are wrong, but also be able to correct him/her self to make things right.
    Not afraid to let someone on their staff to take the lead now and then, gives them the autonomy to run things.

    A Good Leader develops more Good Leaders.
     
  8. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Dunno. Did Picard ever fly into a rage?
     
  9. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    8,038
    Ratings:
    +1,018
    He could be influenced by emotions, but a rage? No.
     
  10. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Indeed sir. Maybe I can address the points individually and see if you agree.

    A good leader sets the example in everything that they do and always does the right thing.
    Honor I guess is the key word here. I think it is hard to get all of them right. Monumentous decisions are few and far between. But daily one is confronted with a host of little one's. The trick is to have a very high average on those.


    Can see how a decision that is made in the moment will affect things in the future.
    Vision. Is the leader just reacting to past circumstances or creating new ones?


    Listens and supports their staff, ok with input but still makes decisions based on their experiences.
    Judgment. Knows, welcomes and appreciates the third party perspective.


    Cares about people and their feelings but can make the tough decision.
    Empathy.
    The leader considers and rewards honesty and dedication.


    A good leader will say when they are wrong, but also be able to correct him/her self to make things right.
    Humility. The realization that success is determined by a team effort above the perceived brilliance of a certain individual.

    Not afraid to let someone on their staff to take the lead now and then, gives them the autonomy to run things.
    Delegation. Conserve strength and mental awareness for the critical moment. Educate the underlings and give them the confidence to step up to the task when needed.
     
  11. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    24,795
    Ratings:
    +1,071
    Now what on God's green earth do we have going on here ??????????? :eek:
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Oh damn, deep & meaningful :poop:

    Time for me to skedaddle ....... [​IMG]
     
  12. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    I don't want to infringe on Blew's franchise. But I think we can support a running dialogue in a couple of different forms.
     
  13. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,427
    Ratings:
    +417
    Honor I guess is the key word here. I think it is hard to get all of them right. Monumentous decisions are few and far between. But daily one is confronted with a host of little one's. The trick is to have a very high average on those.
    Agree No one is perfect
    Some leaders only do the honorable thing when they are being watched,
    Great leaders understand that all of their actions are watched and influence the actions of others.


    Can see how a decision that is made in the moment will affect things in the future.
    Vision. Is the leader just reacting to past circumstances or creating new ones?
    Both, Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it.
    My take on Vision is that one must be able to see how a decision today (big or small) will dictate things in the future.
    Will my decision mean more changes down the road. What the pros and cons of the direction I am taking.


    Listens and supports their staff, ok with input but still makes decisions based on their experiences.
    Judgment. Knows, welcomes and appreciates the third party perspective.
    TEAM. Value your people, make them feel important that they are contributing.

    Cares about people and their feelings but can make the tough decision.
    Empathy. The leader considers and rewards honesty and dedication.
    To keep it simple when I had a staff, I had a personal connection with each person.
    Respect would reflect my thoughts and feelings better.


    A good leader will say when they are wrong, but also be able to correct him/her self to make things right.
    Humility. The realization that success is determined by a team effort above the perceived brilliance of a certain individual. Confidence. If I make a mistake I'll fix it.

    Not afraid to let someone on their staff to take the lead now and then, gives them the autonomy to run things.
    Delegation. Conserve strength and mental awareness for the critical moment. Educate the underlings and give them the confidence to step up to the task when needed.
    Empowerment. Let your staff make decisions on their own. Suggest maybe a better course of action if need be. When I was in retail sometimes a new manager would call me at home with a problem, I would ask what would you do if I did not answer? Ok, do that and we'll talk tomorrow
     
  14. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    I soooooooo wanna say "Gorn!" (I favor the strong, silent type...great fashion sense, as well)

    Screen Shot 2013-09-07 at 6.24.54 PM.png


    All kidding aside, I don't think I'm deep enough into Trekker culture to have an informed view...
    Kirk is a bit too emotional for my taste and Spock...well, I didn't even think Spock was human.

    One point I'd make is that rules of leadership that are so broad as to cover the 100s of different
    types of orgs to be led, will almost certainly create something seriously watered down.
    (Leading a team of West Coast english muffin vendors, a kindergarten class or a
    SEAL team require very different skill sets, though some commonality can be found)

    I do believe in leading by example...conspicuously modeling what you want from others...
    and never trying to pretend that oneself is error-free. And before I start to sound too much like
    a 'Tony Robbins @ the Marriott' seminar, one trait I especially like (in leaders and the general pop)
    is just to not freak out when the fit hits the shan. The old--Stop, Think, Observe, Plan--approach has
    saved my bacon in the wilderness ~twenty times...a calm refusal to panic is almost always the best first step.


    --Signed Lance--Gorn 2 B Wild--19
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  15. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,427
    Ratings:
    +417
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Good responses Pump... may I add... ?

    Can see how a decision that is made in the moment will affect things in the future.
    Vision. Is the leader just reacting to past circumstances or creating new ones?
    Both, Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it.
    My take on Vision is that one must be able to see how a decision today (big or small) will dictate things in the future.
    Will my decision mean more changes down the road. What the pros and cons of the direction I am taking.
    I like the bolded part a lot.


    Listens and supports their staff, ok with input but still makes decisions based on their experiences.
    Judgment. Knows, welcomes and appreciates the third party perspective.
    TEAM. Value your people, make them feel important that they are contributing.
    I am okay with your version.


    Cares about people and their feelings but can make the tough decision.
    Empathy. The leader considers and rewards honesty and dedication.
    To keep it simple when I had a staff, I had a personal connection with each person.
    Respect would reflect my thoughts and feelings better.
    Perhaps empathy is the precursor to developing respect. Your thoughts?


    A good leader will say when they are wrong, but also be able to correct him/her self to make things right.
    Humility. The realization that success is determined by a team effort above the perceived brilliance of a certain individual.
    Confidence. If I make a mistake I'll fix it.
    Again... confidence / valuing experience... what evolves these traits?


    Not afraid to let someone on their staff to take the lead now and then, gives them the autonomy to run things.
    Delegation. Conserve strength and mental awareness for the critical moment. Educate the underlings and give them the confidence to step up to the task when needed.
    Empowerment. Let your staff make decisions on their own. Suggest maybe a better course of action if need be. When I was in retail sometimes a new manager would call me at home with a problem, I would ask what would you do if I did not answer? Ok, do that and we'll talk tomorrow.
    Empowerment. Indeed. But could this be the breeding ground for insubordinance?
     
  17. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Unfortunately... stop, think, observe, do nothing... seems more common place.
     
  18. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    Maybe. My disappointment has more often been that people would rather do something useless
    or even counter-productive, then feel that they aren't doing (or appearing to do) anything.
     
  19. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,427
    Ratings:
    +417
    KISS

    Keep It Simple Stupid.....
     
  20. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Appearances do seem to matter signifcantly to a vast majority. This would make for a great discussion point as well.
     
  21. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Simplicity and symmetry seems to be desirable conditions. I doubt though that these apply universally.
     
  22. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    I've come to believe that the human psychological desire to read things as simple, waylays us again and again.
    A couple of peripheral quotes I've lived by and shared for decades, are:

    "The point is not to simplify, but to clarify." Richard Saul Wurman

    "There is always an easy solution to every human problem--neat, plausible,
    and wrong." H.L Mencken


    I'm not putting down KISS (except for Gene Simmons) ...the word "simple" has just become a bit of a red flag for me...
     
  23. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,427
    Ratings:
    +417
    Empathy/ Respect
    Perhaps empathy is the precursor to developing respect. Your thoughts?
    I think Respect is earned by one's actions towards people with or without empathy.
    A boss can not have any empathy towards his staff but still gain respect by treating everyone the same in a fair manner.


    Humility/Confidence.
    Again... confidence / valuing experience... what evolves these traits?
    Valuing experience to me is respect - understanding that someone might know a bit more than you in a certain area.
    That said, you have to believe in yourself to make your own decision if that is what you think needs to be done.
    You can't always fix something by doing the same thing! The good leader can see that and has the confidence to try something different based on his/her own experiences.


    Delegation/Empowerment.
    Empowerment. Indeed. But could this be the breeding ground for insubordinance?
    If you empower people and never provide feedback both positive and negative sure you're going to have problems down the road. It would also be a red flag that you have NOT identified a person that has the traits to be a good leader.
     
  24. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    24,795
    Ratings:
    +1,071

    Well :poop: ............ that DIDN'T take 2 days afterall !!!!!! :eek:

    Does this mean I can facetime again now that you no longer need to concentrate ?????? :D
     
  25. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    24,795
    Ratings:
    +1,071
    So you're a Paul Stanley or Ace Frehley fan ???? :cool:
     
  26. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    Oh, Hell, they're all a hoot...
    Screen Shot 2013-09-07 at 7.58.35 PM.png

    Mr. Witz/Klein, however is the only one whose sheer dickishness outweighs the good stuff...


    (p.s.: now, I'm sure we're finally getting to the meat of what Sandy had in mind, re. starting this new thread...)
     
  27. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Well I think people like to declare themselves experts in what touches them in everyday life. Practice your dorian, aolian and pentatonic scales... and you too can play like David Gilmour. If you don't believe me... ask this guy.





    Or you could settle for being Gene Simmons. You'll get pooned and live the good life off an amazingly "simple" business model. The choice is yours.
     
  28. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,552
    Ratings:
    +378
    Empathy/ Respect
    Perhaps empathy is the precursor to developing respect. Your thoughts?
    I think Respect is earned by one's actions towards people with or without empathy.
    A boss can not have any empathy towards his staff but still gain respect by treating everyone the same in a fair manner.
    The trick is not the boss gaining respect as the leverage he enjoys gives him the decided advantage. The issue is more the boss communicating that he respects his workers... (hence some sort of empathy for their position in life).


    Humility/Confidence.
    Again... confidence / valuing experience... what evolves these traits?
    Valuing experience to me is respect - understanding that someone might know a bit more than you in a certain area.
    That said, you have to believe in yourself to make your own decision if that is what you think needs to be done.
    You can't always fix something by doing the same thing! The good leader can see that and has the confidence to try something different based on his/her own experiences.
    Indeed sir. Well spoken.


    Delegation/Empowerment.
    Empowerment. Indeed. But could this be the breeding ground for insubordinance?
    If you empower people and never provide feedback both positive and negative sure you're going to have problems down the road. It would also be a red flag that you have NOT identified a person that has the traits to be a good leader.
    For sure. Good point. But many are very defensive and wish more to protect their realms instead of striving to expand them.
     
  29. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,427
    Ratings:
    +417
    I see your point,
    Communicating respect to me would be a type of non-verbal communication earned more through one's actions.
    Empathy would be verbal two way communication that would include ones professional and personal life...
     
  30. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,355
    Ratings:
    +606
    You can have respect without empathy. Take an internet debate for example. You may not give a rat's *** about a poster, but you may have respect for their argumentative skills.

    Then again, if we go strict definition, empathy can 'indeed precede and indicate the approach' of respect.
    But so can tits in any given bar.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page