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The shite hits the fan..... or business as usual

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    A look at Chargers odds 'n' ends after Combine
    Written by
    Kevin Acee

    There will be a market for Vincent Jackson, and some team will give him more than $10 million a year on a long-term deal.

    That’s about all that appears certain, as Jackson’s side and other teams await word on what the Chargers will do.

    It appears they’ll continue waiting for a while.

    The team is seemingly content to let Jackson field offers elsewhere before making their play for the man who leads them in receiving yards over the past four seasons despite missing 10 games in a contract dispute in 2010.

    Several people around the league, including people with teams interested in Jackson, have expressed the opinion that the Chargers will ultimately franchise their star wide receiver by the March 5 deadline. Chargers sources continue to place the chances of Jackson being given the franchise tag (and the $13.7 million it would require) at less than 1 percent, but they also insist it is an option.

    The Chargers appear to be banking on the top end of the wide receiver market not being as lucrative as projected – a notion that does have legs, according to some in the league – and Jackson wanting to stay in San Diego will work in their favor. In fact, sources familiar with Jackson’s thinking say he would take less to stay in San Diego.

    Among other tidbits about the Chargers gleaned over the past week while lurking around Indianapolis at the NFL Combine, where the free agent market began to be set and teams' plans came into focus:

    • The Chargers have one of the top two centers (Nick Hardwick) and top two left tackles (Jared Gaither) on the market. That doesn’t mean either is going to get top money at their position, but it does mean they won’t be cheap. There is interest on all sides to stay together.

    • Left tackle Marcus McNeill will be released, perhaps as soon as the end of this week. Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith acknowledges only that “Marcus has medical issues we’re concerned about, and we’re working out way through that process.” However, the team cannot justify the $10 million salary guaranteed McNeill if he is on the roster on March 16. McNeill’s spine issues will have to be evaluated by other teams before it is known if he will continue playing.

    • With McNeill out and Kris Dielman retiring, the Chargers will be without the players they envisioned being the left side of their offensive line for years to come. But the team will gain a little more than $10 million in salary cap room. Dielman will have $1.7 million in dead money, but he was due $4.5 million in salary and a $1 million roster bonus. McNeill received a $5 million advance last year which counted as a signing bonus, leaving the Chargers $5.2 million in dead money that will count toward te 2012 cap.

    • With so many other holes to fill and with him having filled in as a starter for 15 games at two positions over the past two seasons, it appears the Chargers are set to go with Tyronne Green at left guard now that Dielman is retiring. While the team always believed Green was a guard, his ascension on the depth chart moves Colin Baxter to at least No.2 at center.

    • The Chargers will still have $2.05 million in signing bonus proration to count against the cap, but the release of defensive end Luis Castillo will save nearly $5 million ($3.9 million salary, $1 million roster bonus and $75,000 workout bonus). That, plus the elimination of McNeill and Dielman’s money and $1 million saved with the likely release of nickel back Dante Hughes, gives the Chargers at least $26 million in cap room.

    • While the team believes/hopes Quentin Jammer and Antoine Cason will bounce back in 2012, the Chargers will be in the market for a cornerback, and free agent special teams ace Corey Graham will likely be a target as the Chargers appear likely to lose their Special Teams Player of the Year, Mike Tolbert.

    • Yes, Tolbert appears headed for the market. The Chargers and his side have talked but gotten nowhere. Word is that Ray Rice, Matt Forte and Marshawn Lynch will be franchised if long-term deals are not reached. That leaves Tolbert, whose 19 touchdowns over the past two seasons rank seventh in the NFL, as arguably the best available back. The Chargers will likely go looking for a veteran such as Cadillac Williams to back up Ryan Mathews. Michael Bush, who they tried to get via trade a few years ago, is also a possibility.

    • The team does not appear to be in line for any of the top free agent safeties but is definitely looking for a starting strong safety. A possibility there is Notre Dame’s Harrison Smith, a projected second-round pick. One important Chargers decision maker is said to like Smith very much.
     
  2. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    If they nail down a deal to keep VJ, what are the odds that they would tag either Hardwick or Tolbert?
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Hardwick?...... maybe. Tolbert?....... no fargin' way. Gaither is more important than either one, frankly.
     
  4. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    I think they'll ink a longer term deal for Gaither. Same with Hardwick, as he seemed to make his mind up regarding playing/retiring when Norv was brought back. That leaves Tolbert. The Chargers did use the tag on Sproles for two consecutive years, so it's not out of their character. If I had a choice between Brinkley & Tolbert, Tolbert wins.
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    You don't pay a backup franchise tag money....... especially a backup RB. It was nuts that they paid that money to Sproles two years in a row..... should've just signed him to a long-term deal originally.
     
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  6. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    I'd like to see Gaither, Hardwick, VJ and Tolbert all signed to long term deals. Hardwick might have 1 more good season in him then I'm going all guns blazing for Alex Mack in Cleveland who really wants to get back to CA.
     
  7. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    If we gain Micheal Bush in the loss of Tolbert, I will be ok. Love DOUBLE moves we get a good player and take one away from a division rival. Id like to pick D Bowe from KC too.
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Don't know and don't think Bush will come to San Diego to be a back up, Williams would be more likely but that ignores the fact that he sucks and hasn't been good since his rookie year.

    Harrison Smith is a good choice for a SS, good strong run defender and compliment to Weddle
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Why are we releasing Hughes and not Jammer? Is AJ high? Hughes was a solid nickel guy this past year. What does he see in Jammer to keep him around another year? I'd rather cut the guy or get a 5th;6th round pick for him.

    Gaither and VJ need to be locked up. They do that, there looking at atleast 10-12m on the cap for FA. They can't sign Tolbert? I figure VJ is going to be about 10-11m on the cap and Gaither will be 4-5m on the cap for 2012. I highly doubt Michael Bush will be in SD.
     
  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    You'll really think you can sign a starting LT for $4-5 million?...... Gaither won't be cheap.
     
  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    No he'll be 4-5m on the cap for 2012. Which means if he signs a 2 year 10m deal he'll most likely be 5m on the cap for 2012.
     
  12. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    McNeill was going to make $10 million this year..... you really think you can get Gaither for half that?
     
  13. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    What makes you think that Tolbert was a backup RB for us?? The NFL is a multi back leauge now as much it is a pass to set up the RBs leauge.
     
  14. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    When Dielman signed his contract in 2007 he made the following numbers, 2.3m, 5.4m, 7.2m, 6.2m, 6.2m

    Thats Kris Dielman, a pro bowler. Same for McNeill. He was signed coming off Pro Bowl years as well. Gaither didn't make the pro bowl. He only had a solid 5 games. So if he's asking anything about 5-6m I'd let him walk. Cause he is still yet to prove himself for 16 games to get a deserved contract.
     
  15. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It'll probably take $5-6 million to get Gaither, because the market for LT's is poor right now, and that includes the draft. That's just the nature of the beast.
     
  16. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    it makes financial sense to use the franchise tag on him over and over.
    1. It keeps the Bolts salary cap down incase of injury (see Deilman)
    2. It fees up money for other players for longer term deals
    3. It prevents the Bolts from having to be committed to keep him on the roster for unproductive years, (See Hines Ward)

    The **** hit the fan when AJ became a desperate man and TRADED UP to get Weddle, Hester and Mathews. By doing that he weakend his ability to build through the draft and finding better back-ups who could become future starters-pro bowlers. Although good players are easy for AJ to find who have not been drafted (Dielman, Gates, Welker, M Turner(?)), He seems to have either changed his mind set or his strategy as UFA success has diminished.

    He has to keep Gaither! He was such an improvement over McNeil. Tolbert need to keep him. I would like to see AJ just make this draft a full offense draft. Sign some FA to the D and make next year a complete D draft.
     
  17. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    A full offense draft??

    You have got to be either kidding or high.
     
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  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    You're high if you think Gaither is signing for only 4-5m. So I wouldn't be throwing around insults like you have all that firmer of a grasp on the market or eval.
     
  19. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    Why does logic confuse you?
    Logically, if they did an entire draft on offense they WILL find some players to step in immediately either drafted or UFA. Then next year do an entire defensive draft. They will find players.

    Trying to pigeon hole a position is very risky as that decreases the odds of 'picking' a player of value.

    AJ can find enough FA to fill in on D until next year.
     
  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Sorry, but you're delusional.

    Citing Dielman's annual salaries and blindly (or decidedly) ignoring the money he made in signing bonuses, Pro Bowl incentives, etc. is flat out ignorant. Dielman also took less money than the market was offering him to come back here. Look at McNeill, he was a very average (holler Pro Bowl berths all you want, the Pro Bowl is the biggest hoax there is for judging actual quality play considering that when it comes to offensive linemen in particular a solid 65% of the "fan vote" ends up being based on big names they recognize from recent high draft picks or guys playing for teams with lots of wins versus guys actually playing well; the average fan pays little attention to OL) LT and he got Top 5 positional money. Scarcity on the market dictates plenty, not to mention the fact that with the rookie wage scale now the market for veterans is increased because there's "more money available" (while also starting in 2013 the expectation of a salary floor to be met) to spend on them with less given to rooks. I'll be absolutely flabbergasted if any deal Gaither and his representation actually accept pays out less than a $8 million per year average.
     
  21. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    I'd give you 7-8m. Thats as high as I'm willing to go. I also didn't add in signing bonuses which I probably should of. So he'd be looking at 6.2m.. Low but thats a good chunk of money in 2012 and he'll be looking at top 10 Tackle money. Not bad for a guy who literally played 5 games.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-diego-chargers/kris-dielman/ - theres Dielman's contract and money.

    But what exactly has Gaither done to justify a contract of 8m a year though? Please support your opinion with facts other than the market is weak. He played 5 solid games? So thats it we should lock him up to top 5 positional money? He was cut from the Ravens and waived by the Chiefs mid-way through the year. It's fair to say he's been inconsistent before.


    I'd give him a 1 year deal or work out a deal in which if he plays well in 2012 you can lock him up for the future.
     
  22. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    He had 6 extremely good games for us. He's played both LT and RT quite well for the Ravens prior to them deciding they didn't want to invest long-term and large guarantee money in him, particularly after having invested a BPA 1st round pick in Michael Oher (and at a time when their top priority was re-signing Ray Lewis and at least one of their top 3 corners, all of whom were free agents).

    Veteran free agent prices are going to be inflated by design of the new CBA, people just need to get used to that because it's the way things are and they won't be changing for at least 10 years. Charles Johnson had one very good season in a contract year on top of a bunch of mediocre seasons and the man got Top 3 positional money. Gaither is one of the top 2 LT's on the market under age 32 - the other being Demetrius Bell who is coming off of knee surgery - LT is a premium position and one which at least 4-5 different teams will likely be looking to improve over what they currently have in place. The franchise figure (which is down from what the average of what is actually Top 5 money given the way the new CBA redefined the process for assigning monetary values to the franchise tenders) for OL (up where it is largely because of the premium on OT's and specifically LT's) is upwards of $9 million.

    You're right... you'd offer him a one year deal - his agent would likely tell him to tell you where to stick it. Unless you franchise tag him, there's no chance in hell Jared Gaither agrees to a 1-year deal; honestly I doubt he's amenable to anything less than a 4 year deal. 6 games may not be enough to convince YOU to invest long-term in him, but there are teams it certainly will - teams with as much or more cap room than us and far less prominent FA's of their own that they're trying to re-sign... like Detroit, Kansas City (don't doubt that they wouldn't love a mulligan after failing him out of their roster last season), Arizona, potentially St. Louis, Buffalo (if they lost out on Bell), the Giants.
     
  23. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    5..
    @Jaguars - Absolutely NO DEFENSE.
    Bills - NO ROLB/RDE pass rushing his side.
    Ravens - Blocked extremely well.
    Lions - Blocked decently/well.
    @Raiders - Blocked well.

    I love the kid, but he was really only tested against Baltimore. And I know other teams are in the market and what not, but I just don't think a 4 year deal is worth it. If it is a 4 year deal how much do you think he'll get? around 32m? I might just want to throw the tag on him for 9m.
     
  24. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    I haven't had a chance to go back and watch any of those 6 games but I do remember Norv saying that 'Randy McMicheal' was in for a LOT of plays this season TO BLOCK. I think the number was 709 plays. I am sure he helped out Gaither but I would rather have a LT that can actually block and allow a TE to run.
     
  25. Nomad

    Nomad Very Senior Member

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    I remember seeing McMicheal on the right side a lot.
     
  26. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    There's nothing overly logical about this. It's simply your assessment of what you'd like to see happen.

    Defense wins championships. While it's true that we need to pay more attention to the OL with Dielman retiring, our offense in general has not been the major roadblock in reaching the SB.

    I can easily turn your process into all defense this year & offense next year. Doesn't make it any more logical, although I do believe that it would move us along much faster towards getting back to the playoffs. There are offensive FA's available this year too.
     
  27. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    I am glad you agree.


    with all the rule changes about 'hitting and tackling' defenses DO NOT win championships anymore. Offenses win championships as what the commish wants.
     
  28. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I didn't agree with you. Try some reading comprehension exercises.
     
  29. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    You got problems. :laugh: of course you agreed with me. Who's your daddy? lol


    You said it was 'illogical" and than you said "although I do believe that it would move us along much faster towards getting back to the playoffs" lololoolololololololololololololololololol........

     
  30. MONDO.

    MONDO. Well-Known Member

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    Defese is key to winning championships giants over patsies ring a bell?
     

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