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Three Runs and a Punt

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by boltssbbound, Sep 21, 2014.

  1. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Fans never seem to be in favor of conservative playcalling, but sometimes all it takes to win the game is for the offense to run three times and punt the ball. Like most of you, I would have liked to see Rivers throw one or two more passes on 1st and 2nd down in the 2nd half against the Bills. But the Denver/Seattle game showed us what happens when a team doesn't play the situation and tries to be too aggressive.

    Up 17-3 in the 4th quarter, Seattle had a 1st down at their own 8. If they'd simply run the ball 3 straight times and punted, they probably would have won the game easily. Denver's offense was struggling mightily. But rather than play smart in that situation, the Seahawks called a pass on 2nd down. Russell was sacked at the goal line and nearly lost a fumble. On 3rd down, Lynch was tackled for a safety.

    On their next possession, still up 17-5, Seattle decided to be aggressive again in their own end of the field and throw it on 1st down. Wilson was picked and the Broncos offense finally got in the end zone. If Seattle had simply run the ball three times and punted in that situation, Denver would most likely not have come close to forcing overtime.

    Fans will almost never criticize the coaches for being too aggressive, or laud them for a conservative play call. But against EJ Manuel and a Bills offense that struggled to move the ball all day, the Chargers conservative approach seems to have been appropriate. You certainly can't argue with the results.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
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  2. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    Your logic is sound.

    Live Long.jpg
     
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  3. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    I didn't mind running the ball, just not up the ducking middle over and over. Why give up on success we had running to the outside? Mix it up at least a little, not necessarily demanding pass plays, just would pref a first down to keep grinding out the clock.
     
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  4. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You can play safe without playing dead. The Chargers have been most successful when having long clock grinding drives. 3 runs for a punt does not provide that.
     
  5. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

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    FOUR three-and-outs in a row......WTF???!!! :speechless:
    That was annoying as hell. :tdown:
     
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  6. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    The Bolts had to go turtle at the end, they couldn't afford to lose another running back. Was David Johnson even in the game during crunch time??
     
  7. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    My dos centavos: I thought for three and a half quarters, Frank Reich called a great game, but that series of predictable runs up the gut that resulted in giving the ball back to the Bills numerous times was too conservative. You don't always get burned playing with fire, but it really stings when you do.

    I don't think coach McCoy liked what he saw regarding our five 4th quarter punts.

    "We just have to find a way to get a first down," McCoy said. "I mean, we move the ball the whole game, and all of a sudden, we stop moving the football. So we have to do a better job. We have to look at (ourselves) in the mirror, figure out a way to get it done and not put ourselves, or the defense, or our football team in that situation again.We should just close it out when we have the opportunity, and don't let them get the ball back ever."

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/21/san-diego-chargers-buffalo-bills-0921/
     
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  8. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    The playcalling was not the problem.

    You say "3 runs and a punt" like as though Reich got with the offense and said "ok, here's what we're going to do. We're going to run the ball 3 times and then punt. BREAK!"

    Protecting a lead like that mandates running the clock. The failure was in the running game not producing any yardage.
     
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  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    No **** Sherlock. Of course they wanted to grind the clock. However, when ruining up the middle for 1 yard only took less than 15 seconds, and there was about 8 minutes to go, don't you think that perhaps, just perhaps a LONG drive would be better? How many drives did the chargers have yesterday that were 7+ minutes? More than one, correct? So why try for 3 runs and a punt... And yeah they probably even said break. The play calling was a problem, if you refuse to see it through your rose colored glasses, so be it. Perhaps you like 4, 3 and outs in a row, I expect this O with our players to never have that happen.

    Can you name one series where we did not start on first down with a run? If yo want to control the clock you mix the plays up. IF you have someone who can get 4 yards per carry, sure try and run it 3 times, if you get to third down and you still have more than 4 yards to go, guess what... you do something different...

    Sorry Leo, the Prevent O is not for me.
     
  10. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    The Chargers clearly go into every game trying to establish the run.

    It served them well against Seattle too - you can't just give up on it especially to a team with good pass rushers as it allows your opponent to run at you full blast every single play.

    While the play calling was very bland (yes 3 runs and a punt) and could've been more creative, the point of it was obvious at the time; to run out the clock. I found us running far too much on first down and far too blandly for my tastes but as the game continued on it made perfect sense as the Bills were given few options or chances to come back.

    I would like to see Reich get more creative but he had some good calls vs. Buffalo and really good game plan against Seattle. Though as the Cupcake section comes up I don't expect him to delve too deeply into the creative section. Even granting the 'any team any day' philosophy of the NFL, you could beat the Jets/Jags/Raiders/Chiefs with any gameplan we've used so far.
     
  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    http://www.chargers.com/news/articl...-Buffalo/e6b23a4e-56ec-4b44-a6ce-6b23da1bffe8

    Watch the video, even MM did not like the 4th quarter O, and asked his team to learn from it. Which is what they need to do.

    I am very happy with the win, but we cant let teams like Denver, KC, Baltimore, New England and San Francisco have that many opportunities to get back into a 10 point game. If I am the only one who feels this way so be it.
     
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  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the playcall wasn't to run up the middle for 1 yard.

    As I said, the problem was the execution, not the call.
     
  13. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I don't think ANYBODY liked the 4th quarter offense. We're not arguing about the results here, we're arguing about what led to the results.
     
  14. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok. Enlighten us, what was it? It is not execution when for the majority of the game our OL was incapable of making any rushing lanes up the middle against one of the best DLs in football. That is just ignoring any of the facts to try and say that it wasn't a mistake. Your better than that Leo.
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    All I'm saying is there isn't a playcaller in all of the NFL, college ranks, high school football, or even Pop Warner that's going to call a run up the middle with the full intent of not gaining more than a yard.

    You may not think it was the best decisions to run but at the end of the day they're still charged with executing.

    Maybe I'm just splitting hairs here with your choice of rhetoric purposely making it sound like "Let's only gain 1 yard per run!" was the actual intent (even if only to make a point) but I still think the players hold accountability that's never given to them in these scenarios to actually execute what's being asked of them.
     
  16. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Your arguing just to argue apparently. Because you certainly are not sticking to your guns in the light of what is being offered.
     
  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm arguing just to argue.

    You're better than that, Conc. Let's actually discuss the debate (or choose to move on) and refrain from the pandering.
     
  18. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Despite popular belief amongst those who can't fathom someone making more than two posts to argue his opinions (ironic coming from the current accuser) I have never once in my life argued on the internet "just to argue".

    I'm just very opinionated and like to argue my opinions and, admittedly, am sometimes slow to see the other side in times when I feel I was wrong at the end of the debate.
     
  19. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok, I see.. So the anticipation was that the run up the middle would suddenly start to work when it has not worked at all, the majority of the game, and therefore it is OK t run up the middle 3 times and punt, because that is more effective than getting first downs and extending the drive to burn the clock. Is that your take?

    You apparently like Reich ignore what has come before, I would prefer that you both try and learn from what was playing out, but if you want to remain ignorant, and use that as your basis of argument, dont let me stop you.

    Given the FACTS (which you choose to ignore) that is exactly what they did. It is called ultra conservative offense, or perhaps we can coin a phrase and call it PREVENT offense. There was no real attempt to get a first down when you choose to run, run, oh 3rd and 8... run...

    We were lucky, the D was getting tired but held up their end. I cant see that being the same against the Denver Broncos, can you, honestly?
     
  20. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say the playcall wasn't conservative. I said they were expected to gain more than 1 yard.

    But I'll hand it to you that it was probably ill advised that they run with it not working that way before.

    I'll agree a few runs to the outside would have been better served.
     
  21. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I am, apparently that is a tender spot for you. Perhaps a touch of introspection will give you some focus on why that is.
     
  22. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    It is a very tender spot for me when someone ignores the subject matter to accuse me of doing something I'm not doing, actually.

    It's very narcissistic to assume that someone would agree with you if only they understood what you were arguing and/or weren't "arguing just to argue" and then assume that because they aren't agreeing they either don't get what you're saying or they're arguing just to argue.

    I have never once in my life argued just to argue. I analyze myself and my approach to life much MUCH more than you give me credit for. Just because we disagree on a matter doesn't mean I'm purposely arguing the other side just for the sake of argument.
     
  23. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Without making adjustments to create wholes why should it work. We were not playing on a 115 degree field as were were fortunate to play the Seahawks. We were not tiring out the Buffalo DL that I could see and out interior OL was getting pushed back all day. So what was supposed to change. Running to grind the clock is effective if you can sprinkle in a few first downs, correct?
     
  24. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    You're right, actually.

    As much as it grinds me to be in a debate where I feel I need to concede to the other side amidst your insulting claims that I'm arguing just to argue I still have to concede to the argument when it convinces me.

    That still doesn't mean I was arguing for the sake of argument, it just means you brought points forth that I hadn't considered before that effected my personal conclusion.

    I'd say this had actually been a very good debate if not for your need to insult my intelligence as you have in the process.
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Sorry you feel that way, because it is very apparent to me that you are precisely doing that. You have done it repeatedly ion the past, regardless of what you choose to claim, just as I am guilty of as you eluded to.

    I dont think you will agree with me because you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I dont expect you to have the internal fortitude to agree with me at all. You want to argue that run, run, run, punt is good because we won the game. Good for you.

    Sure.
     
  26. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Perhaps you should try and attack why the perception is there rather than the person who points it out. That is what is insulting.
     
  27. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    It confuses me how you, of all people on this forum, can draw the incorrect conclusion that arguing an opinion a lot is the same as arguing just to argue.

    If I truly believe what I'm arguing that's not arguing just to argue. Arguing just to argue is taking a side of an argument that you don't truly believe with the sole intent of extending it unnecessarily. That isn't what I was doing and has never been what I do.


    Whoops. I just proved you wrong with my last post before I even saw this response. How's that crow taste?
     
  28. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Perception doesn't change what my internal motivation is. Only I can know that and it's even more insulting for you to pretend to be a bigger expert than I on what motivates me.
     
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  29. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Wow you did. Props for you. I still stand by what I said about arguing. Sorry you are insulted by that, but it is what it is. I wont banter that point with you any longer.
     
  30. Kayworks

    Kayworks BoltTalker

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    Quoting Tom ......"We gotta just roll with it"....
     

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