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Time to reanalyze Norv Turner

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Dec 14, 2009.

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  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    All too often Charger fans talk about the current Head Coach of the San Diego Chargers as if they are reading a bed time story to their child. Fans seem to think of Norval Turner as a gloomy, forlorn two legged version of Eeyore, the depressed donkey from the Whinnie the Poo books.

    That can not be the claim as of late. In fact, many of the fans who have made the trek to the preseason camps that the Chargers open to the public in spring are given reasons to question that perception. Yet for many perception is reality, that is until it is shattered by a close up view of the Chargers Head Coach snorting fire, and laying out a stream of lyrics on television that makes a lip reading sailor smile with pride as we saw in the waning moments of the Chargers win over the Dallas Cowboys.

    Coach Turner has shown he can be a fiery as any other coach. Many a fan of the Chargers would have thought that would be something that could not be said about the Chargers Head Coach… Especially those fans that were frustrated enough to started the ‘fan site’ for Norv Turner, FireNorv.com. A site dedicated to educating the Chargers fan at large on the short comings of the Chargers Head Coach, and pleading with the team owners to jettison the man who was tearing the talented team down.

    Turner himself is aware of the criticism, and seems to take it in stride. "It’s the kind of job where you will have critics, be it the media or the fans, and whatever. There is only one way to change those opinions, and that’s to have your team go out and play well on a consistent basis." He also added, "It also helps when your quarterback is playing well, and Philip has been great for us. He’s got a complete understanding of what we’re doing, and he manages the game so well."

    Well, it seems to me that the aforementioned site has been very quiet of late. The Chargers are on an eight game winning streak, and playing some of the best football they have in some time. Perhaps the fans at FireNorv.com have perhaps begun to reevaluate their position where Norv Turner is concerned. I happen to know many fans have. It could just be the euphoria of seeing the Chargers once again vault past the hated division Rival Broncos to take the lead in the AFC West, or the giddiness that comes form having the controlling hand in the run for the second seed in the AFC playoff picture, or it possibly could be that some people are starting to respect the man that in a very short time has established himself as one of the most successful coaches in franchise history.

    Turner has guided the Chargers to consecutive AFC West titles and three playoff wins, tied with Don Coryell and Bobby Ross for the most in team history. Turner has saved his best coaching for late in the season as evidenced by his 9-0 record in December over the last two years, and is the sixth head coach in NFL history to lead a team to the Championship Game in his first season at the helm.

    Now, of course if can be argued that ‘coaching the Chargers is so easy even a caveman can do it’. Believe me, it has in fact been argued on fan forums such as BoltTalk.com. However I would hasten to add that it has not been an easy ride for Norv. In fact, a slow start in ’07 and ’08 I believe is due in large to players not fully buying into the system the Coaches were selling. Norv made this comment that reflects that opinion: "You try to build something, and you try to sell it to the players, and you have to believe in what you’re doing, even when the rough spots hit," he said. "The main thing is that the players also believe.

    Turner though has of late shown that he has won the players over, and it seems is quickly winning more of the fans over as well. Of course that is a side effect of winning football games. But the fans can be fickle, and it would not take much to turn the current smiles upside down… Luckily, the Chargers are playing at a level currently that gives me confidence that the fans will continue to have reasons to smile.

    Turner this season has also been chipping away at various other critiques and perceptions. One such is that he is not a detailed oriented coach, and that his teams lack discipline. To assail that perception the Chargers have quietly moved into the position as the leagues least penalized team for the 2009 season. This is big, because you can watch teams week in and week out put themselves in a position to lose games because of mental lapses that lead to yellow hankies on the turf. Turner and the coaching staff are due some of the credit for eliminating such mental mistakes; something that Turner’s predecessor with the team, Marty Schottenheimer was known and respected for.

    Now if my hypothesis is correct that would appear to be a notch in the armor of Norv Turner, perhaps I just choose to look over the rim of my ‘Homervison©’ glasses at the Chargers for a moment, but let me not rain on my blind fandom here. Because while it could be argued that he may have lost the players, it can be pointed out that he has won them back in stunning fashion. The players believe in their head coach now.

    Last Night, after winning a closer than comfortable victory over the Dallas Cowboys in Dallas, Philip Rivers, star Quarterback for the Chargers gave a game ball to Coach Turner. Rivers made these comments about Turner shortly after “He doesn’t care one bit about getting recognition, but he certainly deserves a ton of credit for where we’re at,” Rivers said. “I know it was special for him to come to Dallas. He’s always the one giving out game balls so I thought I’d give him one this time for the great job he’s done.” (credit; Casey Pearce, Chargers.com)

    A sign of appreciation and respect, as the entire team cheered the moment. It is much easier to stay tight as a team with the wins, and as mentioned before, the Chargers with Rivers and Turner have had a lot to celebrate in December. Since they were 2-3, the Chargers have accumulated eight straight wins. The latest improved them to 11-0 in December under Turner and gave them an NFL record with 16 straight wins in the month.

    It can be argued that Turner has the team focused in the right direction. Many fans have said of the past Chargers that they are too interested in the press clippings of their last game. If the players are to be believed now, they are focused forward, not backwards along with their Coaching staff.

    “The thing I like best about us is that we’re addressing what we have to do on a week-to-week basis,” Turner said. “And if you want to be a team that has a chance to have success in December and January, you have to be ready to play whatever type of game presents itself.”
    "A lot of things have to happen to play well in December," Turner said. "You have to believe in what you're doing and you have to stay healthy. And over the last two years we've been healthier in December than we've been in September. Our schedule has been such that we could have success, but that's not the case this season. Our schedule's much tougher.
    "You get closer to what you're trying to accomplish, and our guys enter that period with great focus."

    “We’re not even going to worry about Cincinnati, what they did today,” linebacker Shaun Phillips said. “We’re going to just concentrate on what they’re going to do next week against us. We’ll continue to enjoy this win tonight and get on to the Cincinnati Bengals tomorrow.”

    “We seem to finish strong,” running back LaDainian Tomlinson said. “We’ve talked about it and really made it one of our mottos. That has a lot to do with our mindset in December. We have a knack for really taking it one game at a time and taking that idea to heart. We’ve done that.”

    “It says a lot about our team,” said Philip Rivers, “We’ve had the focus and the attitude that you need down the stretch that it takes to make a run at it.”

    I think it might be time for Charger fans to reanalyze Norv Turner, to weight the facts against the perceptions that have been built up. Let us judge the man for his time with the Chargers, and hope that the Chargers continue responding to their Head Coach through the last game of February!
     
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  2. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Did you write this? Or is it an article from somewhere?
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    If it was from somewhere there would be a link... :icon_twisted:
     
  4. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Conc wrote it. And yes sign Norv now.
     
  5. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Singing him right now would be premature. He's not going anywhere next season.
     
  6. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious what your opinion on the matter would be if his contract ended this year.
     
  7. nflhof

    nflhof BoltTalker

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    Norv deserves to be resigned and has earned it. He is a good coach who has taken Philip Rivers to new heights. Philip is a good QB with or without Norv but he is a great QB because Norv knows what he is doing with QB's.
     
  8. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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  9. Chargers-Superhero

    Chargers-Superhero Just win the Damn SB !!!

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    There's no rush IMO. He's not going to go anywhere. He knows he's got a good thing going with the Offense. He wouldn't leave after the 2010 season anyway unless the bottom fell out, and I don't see that happening.:no:
     
  10. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Depends where we finish this season.
    I see no reason why we shouldn't win the whole thing. The only team that could possibly knock us out in the playoffs are the Ponies, but we've owned them since 2005.
     
  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    The article is not about signing Norv.

    It is about reassessing how we view him. He has at times been the most unpopular coach of the Chargers. Some if not much of the criticism heaped on him should not have been aimed at one person.

    Durign the last month, has anyone been forced to rethink their position on Norv?
     
  12. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    In Dallas they call him Lord Turner...


    AJ is GAWD

    Philip Rivers is the CHOSEN ONE

    and Norv Turner is LORD TURNER

    As it is written.

    As it is spoken.

    Let it be done.
     
  13. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    I did in the 2007 playoffs in Indianapolis. That was a time when I felt the coaching contributed to the win.

    As of now... we aren't the team we were before the bye week. The streak is great but we haven't played the best teams either. Eagles are a decent team. Cowboys are just boarder line good.

    This Sunday will say a lot about how good we are.
     
  14. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Sorry B4L, not to be overly argumenative, but it seems that regardless of who we beat they are never good teams.

    Why are the Bengals a worthy measuring stick where as the Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Broncos, Dolphins, or anyone else are not?

    To be frank, the Chargers have player very respectable football against everyone this season save for the Steelers. So if the Chargers beat the Bengals, who will be the next team that falls from 'good' to mediocre?

    When can you begin to give credit, where it is so richly deserved?:icon_shrug:

    Of course, opinions are like you know the saying. We each have our own and they dont need to look the same I guess...
     
  15. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    I did. The credit I gave is for getting us back from what looked hopeless in the beginning.
    Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Broncos, Dolphins... are any of those teams elite? Are any of them as good as the Colts, Saints, Vikings, Cardinals, Bengals, etc?

    Out of the five you mention... Eagles will make it to the playoffs. Dallas and Giants are boarder line good. Dolphins and Broncos are nothing.
    This is NOT a matter of giving credit... it's the level of credit.
     
  16. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    Another thread full of posts in need of a huge prozac injection.
     
  17. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    Norv's value goes up by a factor of four if we win the Superbowl....... tough call.

    But responding to the original topic.... I'm not going to say that I've totally reevaluated my opinion of Norv. But he is earning respect one week at a time. :yes:
     
  18. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Norv Turner is someone I fully and completely support simply because his track record does not lie.

    --A great coach is NOT judged by how his team performs at its peak, but how well they bounce back from adversity. Tomlin claims that his team will "raise hell" with his bravado, but the only place hell has been raised is the Steelers locker room. Ditto for the Pats. Moss looks like a shell of himself, and veterans clearly do not buy into the "Patriot way". Even Shanahan was unable to pull his team together despite his ability to recognize talent and treat his players well.

    Norv has, for three years, managed to keep a downtrodden Chargers team that looked down and out hopeful, energized, and most importantly, cohesive. Even when we were 4-8, LT stepped to the podium full of pride and claimed that the Bolts would finish the season strong, and there was no argument from any of the young'uns.

    Considering how young and talented the Chargers are as a team, it is enlightening to see Norv foster an environment where ego and accountability are shared, even among the offense and defense. The vision of the team starts at the head (Norv) and flows down all the way to the very, very, very bottom (Bust Davis).

    --Norv has been charged with living up to the hype as an offensive coordinater, and he has actually surpassed this billing, in my opinion: his playcalling has been nothing short of genius. He knows where the strengths of the team lie, and he has not necessarily given Rivers the most talented players in the league to work with at WR, but unlike Marty, he has given PR the types of receivers he needs to be successful.

    He knows how to utilize any offensive player to maximize talent, from Sproles and his screens, to LT on the goal line, to Naanee as an H-back/WR, to Tolbert as a very versatile fullback.

    And the development of Rivers as one of the league's best QBs speaks for itself, and because Norv is not a domineering coach, Rivers can let his fiery, competitive personality shine through.

    --The defensive side of the ball, on the other hand, is not an area of expertise for Norv, but he has shined in this aspect, as well, for he had to make a very difficult personnel decision after an 11-5 season, when the defense appearred to thrive under Cottrell (especially Cromartie). Norv recognized that the mentalities of the offense and the defense were no longer cohesive, and Rivera's style fit this team like a glove.

    --2 sprited playoff performances against overwhelming odds are more of a resume than Marty Schottenheimer has been able to put together in his lifetime. Even Norv's losses were perfromances that Chargers fans can be proud of, especially the display of PR's toughness against the undefeated Patriots.

    Norv is my coach, and I hope that right now, he is the preferred coach of Bolts fans everywhere. I honestly do not see how any coach would be better at this time for the roster we have. :abq2:
     
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  19. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Dolphins and Broncos are nothing? Broncos hold the first wildcard place in the AFC right now. That is not nothing sir. The Dolphins are in the play off hunt as well.

    The teams you listed as your good teams illustrate the 'PERCEPTION' I was talking about. You seem to have the perception that the Cardinals are an elite team. Even thought they have lost to the 49'ers, Panthers and Titans this season. They are 8-4 right now. Good, but is that not what several of those 'nothing' teams you list are?

    You also like the Bengals as an elite team, even though they lost to the 'nothing' Denver Broncos. They also droped a big game against the Texans... They have compiled wins agaisnt the Browns, Raiders, and Lions, so what is it that makes them an elite team in your estimation?

    The Colts, Saints and Vikings have all struggled at times this season and to their credit found ways to win. As have the Chargers.

    So what is it that is required to be tested in your opinion? I would suggest that if you feel the Bengals are 'properly' tested, then you should consider the Chargers much in the same light.
     
  20. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    An incredible post IMHO. Rep to you! :tup:
     
  21. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    They can only beat who's on their schedule.
     
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  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Care to expand on this?
     
  23. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Our posts need prozac.
     
  24. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    Exactly. The real test has not begun yet. This Sunday will be a first step.
    Does Norv deserve credit for this season (so far)? Yes but not (yet) to the extent that some would like it to be.
     
  25. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    Where's my rep...

    I called Norv LORD TURNER :abq2:
     
  26. IFiredCHart

    IFiredCHart Well-Known Member

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    Thanks :icon_banana:! But seriously, I think the Rivera point is something that is often overlooked--the decision to fire Cottrell was Norv's, not AJ's.

    I mean, look at how often coaches fire coordinators for no reason, only to have it blow up in their faces? (SEE: Haley, Jouron, Morris)

    And in the other direction, look at how often owners step in and do the re-organization for them? (SEE: Wade Phillips, Zorn)

    Norv masterfully made a calculated move by recognizing that he had not just defensive, SB-calibur talent in his coaching ranks, but also one whose style fits his own despite never coaching a 3-4 scheme.


    But if I woke up tomorrow and found that Norv was fired in favor of Cowher, Gruden, or anyone else that I would feel that the team would be given a new identity, one that the players on our roster would not excel trying to imitate.

    You think every coach would allow players like Rivers the freedom to use the deep ball as a primary weapon? Or value energy on defense over skill? Or hold a team with Super Bowl aspirations together after being 4-8 and written off by everyone with loud personalities like Merriman, Phillips, and even Rivers in the clubhouse?

    Coaches like Tomlin are just now starting to be tested, and IMO, other coaches like Sparano are passing with flying colors, as well.
     
  27. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Being that this is the NFL anyone who believes that teams are not on the professional level are, well, full of ****.

    I reckon the Stiller's are a garbage team as they will not make the PO's, the Pat's must be right behind them in the garbage heap. Heck we can add many teams to the garbage pile the Bolt's included, as they never beat any "good" teams.

    I can honestly say, Norv has turned this thing around. it wasn't long ago I really wanted "Chucky" in Dego, I believe it was right after the Donk's spanked us.

    We have One of the best Offensive unit's in the league, if not the best. Sure, sure, not by stat's but we simply have the best personnel on the field against any defense. I give Norv all the credit in the world for that.

    On the defensive side, Ron Rivera, has taken castoffs and no one's and brought them together to play some good defense. Injuries have kept our best player's in the infirmary. He also deserves one hell of a lot of credit.

    In all the year's I have been a bolt's fan, which has been all my life, I can say I have never felt so good about our team. It used to be, we'll find a way to lose when it matters most. Today I believe we are going to win every game we play.

    Yes, and not only yes, but damn straight Norv should be congratulated for the job he's done. Besides if our QB Philip River's, give's the man credit for the job he has done, then those who deny him his due aren't really fan's just wannabes.
     
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  28. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the Bengals lose to the Raiders? :yes:
     
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  29. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Man I am LOVING the attitude these guys have right now. Watching post game interviews and stuff they're only focused on a single game at a time, worrying about themselves being the best they can and nothing else. I was critical of Norv at the beginning of the season but I'm really coming around. It's just awesome, he has all the players behind him and it's great to see that one game at a time approach from everybody and it's obviously paying dividends.
     
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  30. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    Sure, some members of this board will never be happy, they seem to look for things to ***** about win or lose, bi-polar like posts, I wonder if he (or she) is even a Chargers fan.

    Talking about how we still haven't beat anyone, and next week will tell the tale, Wtf?! Dudes either off his rocker or in a mad state of depression incapable of enjoying a moment, or both.

    Does that help explain my post Conc?
     
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