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Trevor Robinson, Chris Watt & the OL

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I'm definitely putting the cart before the horse but I think this would be a fun discussion;

    One of the biggest concerns the Chargers have had recently is the offensive line, and we are clearly still having trouble. Dunlap has been the only consistently effective player on the line, Fluker is a gamer but is clearly injured and having trouble from last year. Rhinehart is proving why Buffalo didn't start him by being probably the most ineffective lineman. Ironically since the rotation stopped both Troutman and Watt have made improvements and become more effective (which makes me want to scream why we didn't remove Rhinehart as opposed to the rotational system). Watt has shown nice flashes at center, and could very well be the center going ahead. However now we face the problem that Watt could be out anywhere from one to four games depending on how bad his injury is. As PR noted we have lost more centers than the team has actual losses.

    Which brings us to Trevor Robinson.

    From what I saw of the game, Robinson looked damned impressive coming in. He basically stepped into the QB of the OL position and played if not flawlessly played with very few mistakes. He played center last year with the Bengals who were almost unanimous in their dislike of the fact they cut/left him on PS http://www.cincyjungle.com/contracts/2014/8/30/6086741/cincinnati-bengals-released-trevor-robinson

    So what am I getting at?

    Might Robinson be a future center with Watt moving back to RG? What if next year our line looked more like this: Dunlap-Troutman-Robinson-Watt-Fluker
    Now I'm perfectly fine with hunting for another guard in the draft, this grouping is contingent on us re-signing Dunlap, and we could always make some upgrades or replacements at a number of positions. But still this looks like a potentially impressive OL and as we saw this past week it definitely did the job against a pretty solid pass rush.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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  3. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    With Robinson and Watt I'm relatively confident we'll be fine at center, I also expect Ohrnberger to be in camp next year.

    Good news, as it's hard to get excited about taking a center high in the draft. OG however remains a serious problem, and Fluker continues to struggle at RT as many here (cough cough) predicted he would.

    Robinson needs to keep it up though, lest we fool ourselves into another Jyles Tucker.
     
  4. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    Can any of those guys rush the passer?
     
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  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    No disagreement on Robinson and I admit whole heartedly that I'm putting cart before horse. However unlike Tucker, Robinson started nearly half a season for the Bengals at C and did a very good job. So good in fact that the fans of the Bengals called it a bad joke that he was sent to the PS and worse were upset when he left. He needs to keep it up but it does give Joe D a lot of tools to play with.

    Re Fluker I don't believe he's a failure at RT and I believe that there's other factors involved in the slip. I will however say that there is a player I'm keeping a close eye on - Corey Robinson RT South Carolina - who depending where he falls MIGHT be good enough that I'd be fine moving Fluker to RG.
    Dunlap-Watt-T. Robinson-Fluker-C. Robinson

    NOW THAT is scary.
     
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  6. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    Lt- Dunlap
    Lg-Chris watt
    C-Trevor Robinson
    Rg- fluker
    Rt- whoever we draft
     
  7. gonzokrb

    gonzokrb Well-Known Member

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    Absolutly!! The upcoming draft has a number of RT prospects. Fluker is a much better guard that tackle.
     
  8. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    I was impressed (generally) with the o-line and "center #5 for the season." I'd like to see more of Robinson before we pencil him in as starter next year, but I like the idea and the prospect of having a somewhat solid line going into next season.
    As it sits, he'd be behind Ohrnberger & Watt, right? I wonder how much playing time Watt will miss? Calf injuries can run the range from mild to severe. Robinson might benefit by practicing with the ones this week.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  9. tito

    tito BoltTalker

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    I'm convinced there will never be RT good enough for Charger fans. Anyone good enough would be playing LT and would still be probably too weak at run-blocking at RT to satisfy. :confused:
     
  10. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Think I'll wait and see who is playing center in the last game, the way it's going it will be the last man standing.
     
  11. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    Any idea who the 6th backup at Center might be? Just in case, of course...
     
  12. tito

    tito BoltTalker

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    Troutman or Rinehart I'm sure in an emergency. After that we signed some C to the practice squad last week. We also have that Miller guy, but I don't know if he's played center.
     
  13. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    This! The Chargers would be best off drafting "Impact" players. Center play can't be that bad that a 3rd rounder can't play well. No need to use a 1st on a center. OLB would be better or CB.
     
  14. Fouts

    Fouts I heart Deano!

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    Yes let's make Robinson starting center (after "filling in" decently) if Watt comes back (move to gaurd), can you imagine that O-line with our starting RB (and future of franchise)Brandon Oliver! :p
     
  15. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    We desperately need playmakers on defense. I'm losing faith in Melvin Ingram, I'm not sure if it's lingering effects of the hip injury, but he is not beating his man.

    Vic Beasley would be my #1 choice at this point, but barring a 0-4 finish I don't think we'll be picking high enough. Maybe in the interest of themes, we could draft another 5'9 CB in Ekpre-Olomu to add the lollypop guild that is our secondary.
     
  16. mettadown

    mettadown BoltTalker

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    Did I miss Hardwick being cut or retiring? Maybe we don't need to draft anybody, Dunlap Troutman Hardwick Watt Fluker
     
  17. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I believe that as of this week, Nick weighs ~15 pounds less than Ellen Page.
     
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  18. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Bud, I think that Nick Hardwick is really done with Football! If you check his Twitter feed, he has lost a bunch of weight and although he looks very healthy and svelte, one would never think of him as a former O-Lineman unless they'd recognize him as a former Charger! The guy is into running 10K races these days (I believe he completed his first one ever) and he honestly looks 70 lb. lighter than his NFL weight, which was always inflated and exaggerated!
     
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  19. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    This is Lance's smarmy arse version of my statement above!
     
  20. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] ......................................... [​IMG]
     
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  21. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Hardwick is defo done. He and Clary are riding off into the sunset...

    Would love Hardwick back as a coach though.

    As for Robinson becoming our center.... hold your horses there. It's been part of one game. Watt may still be the center of our future. I've been touting Fluker to RG for ages but if he gets a bit of help out there eg. a simple chip from RB or TE is is fine and his run blocking is above average.
     
  22. mettadown

    mettadown BoltTalker

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    So in summary, yes i did miss seeing him retire, sorry for thinking our former probowler who played over 60 games straight before this years injury would return.
     
  23. tittylated

    tittylated bolttalk cheerleader sweet

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    Hes already been contemplating retirement the last couple years, I think hardwick deffinately retires. As for trevor Robinson I think we should at least see him in a full game first, although that would be great if we scored 2 young solid interior linemen this year!!
     
  24. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Fluker is struggling the same way a lot of second-year OL tend to do - opposing teams get tape on the OL as well and learn their tells, weaknesses, and tendencies and then gameplan to exploit them just as much as they do with QB's, WR's, and defenses. Can't judge the guy until at least halfway through the 3rd season because you have to see how he (and his OL coach) adjust to account for and adjust to counteract those plays at his weaknesses and shortcomings. The idea of moving Fluker to guard really doesn't mesh with the blocking scheme - particularly with our heavy use of K-Gun in the overall offensive scheme which requires the guards to be able to pull and block well on the move in space - that's something that's just not something that's one of Fluker's strength. The notion that if a OT doesn't pan out you can just kick him inside with no regard to the blocking scheme is naive.

    I like Robinson, but I need to see more before I'm sold. Him showing out well so far in limited action at least has me feeling better about our situation - with him and Watt in our quiver - given that the incoming center class is fairly lackluster for our blocking and offensive scheme unless some guys make some position changes.
     
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  25. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I agree with everything you said here, but I think it's easier to move inside than it is to move outside, because OT just demands more physical talent. Personally I think Fluker's body type, heavy feet, and phone booth playing style are much more adept to playing OG than OT. Joe D's preferences aside.
     
  26. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Robinson did very well for a team to loves to A-gap blitz and did when he was in. He did miss his assignment once but I believe it was due to an error in assignment by Troutman/Fluker, could be wrong though and that led to Rivers throwing at Royal's feet.

    Watt being injured kind of scares me. Honestly, I would be in favor, if he's healthy of an OL of Dunlap, Troutman, Robinson, Watt and Fluker. Fluker's struggling also is due to who is playing at RG. He's had 3 or 4 different RG's this year.

    Rinehart blows, I've never seen a LG consistently get put on skates like he has this year. It's a totally different guy in 2014 than 2013.
     
  27. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    I was hard on Fluker a few weeks ago, but he has put in some solid performances, aside from this Baltimore game. He lunges at speed rushers and misses terribly, it's pathetic to watch but we knew this when he was in college, but the guy has the work ethic and he'll work on it this in the offseason.

    He shouldn't struggle against Rob Ninkovich. But you never know. Patriots love stunts. Chandler Jones might be coming back as well, so Akeem Ayers might move to LDE. He's played very well for the Patriots and I'd honestly give him a call in the off-season.

    In regards to the defense, I hate to bring this topic up again, but I think we could benefit from playing a more hybrid style 4-3. Liuget and Carrethers inside, Attaochu and Freeney as the DE's and Ingram as the "Joker" (Von Miller) type player. Except I think Ingram does fairly well in coverage.
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    To play guard in a system that asks the guards to play 90% of the time in a phone-booth, sure. That's not what we do though. Or at least, when both facets of the offense were clicking (rush and pass) last season, that's not what we were doing - we all got to see Clary falling down more times than not when he was pulling from RG. Fluker is never going to be an outstanding pass-blocker as a RT, but he can be more than serviceable if we can get guards that don't just give up the top/crown of the pocket and leave Phil no room to step up. If there's adequate room for Rivers to step up, it's all a matter of scheming and adjustment for Fluker to learn how to run the rusher past the pocket (i.e. upfield) rather than trying to stall and screen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    We basically run that anyway, what with Pagano's preference for deploying 3 safeties or 5 DB sets or just for moving Ingram around to allow him to attack A and B gaps.

    What our defense needs more than anything (unless we're talking an Earl Thomas type centerfielder who literally can shutdown 1/3 of the field on a given play - but those don't grow on trees) is another consistent rushing threat from the front 3. Everyone's quick to call for this to be the NT, but really it can just as easily (probably more easily because there's a larger pool to draw from) be at the 5-Tech. Interior linemen get held often and it goes uncalled just as often - quite literally you have to tackle an interior DL or be pulling back on him by the wrist these days in order to get called for it. You accept that and you make adjustments. The way to free Liuget up from being as easily held is to present a comparable threat on the other side of the line from him - so that if opposing OL's try to double-team both of them they're leaving one of their TE's to block one of our OLB's (and you'd hope to God that with Attaochu's first step and Ingram's gorilla-like handwork they could beat a TE's iso-blocking). Do we have guys we like there who have produced in spurts for us so far? Sure. But that's where it gives us the freedom to take more of a swing for the fences on an ultra-athletic prospect who needs polish (not unlike what we did with Attaochu at OLB) - and hope to cultivate a star. And in that respect, this upcoming class is chock full of those types, as well as the type that are versatile enough to rotate in at the 1- and 0-tech's on some instances as well as the floor to play the 5-Tech pretty much right out the gate.

    Shawn Oakman (pipe dream, but should at least be listed), Arik Armstead, Mario Edwards Jr. (yeah, there's some consistency concerns, but his athleticism for his size is utterly freakish), Christian Covington, and Chucky Hunter (bit of a shorter-than-normal type, but has a nasty first step) being examples of the former. And Eddie Goldman, Carl Davis, Trey Flowers (needs to add some bulk, but his frame can easily take it), Preston Smith, and Malcolm Brown (if he comes out) the later.
     
  30. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    At least he didn't suggest that we utilize the "Thunder Hammer."
     

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