1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

UT's Canepa: Time for Dean to come clean

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Jun 24, 2015.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,301
    Ratings:
    +4,412
    If you're leaving, Dean, come clean
    By Nick Canepa JUNE 23, 2015


    There’s the pot, which the Chargers have been stirring for months. Time for Dean Spanos to either do his business or get off of it.

    We need to know. San Diego deserves to know.

    The NFL team’s boss should quit the terribly unbecoming shenanigans and machinations — which have turned lead counsel and stadium negotiator (and Spanos mouthpiece) Mark Fabiani into Saddam Hussein, which he is not — and just tell us.

    Dean, are you leaving or staying?

    If you’re merely playing out the tired song, stop it now and say so.

    Stand up and proclaim: “It’s been nice. Thanks for your support for 55 years. I tried, but I’m done. This will be the Chargers’ final season here.”

    I would hate that statement. Most of us, except those who don’t see the value and civic importance of an NFL team in a city that has suffered through so much local and national scandal and abuse in this millennium, would hate it.

    But I, at least, could understand it.

    What I don’t understand is: Why continue to put us through this? Why the figurative torture?

    It’s easy to understand how you can be upset at the city, which has been poorly managed during your many attempts to get a stadium built (until City Hall’s latest efforts) and which neglected Qualcomm Stadium — and insanely lost $15 million a year on it for at least the last decade — to the point where it basically has become an uninhabitable property that should be condemned.

    Since Mayor Kevin Faulconer’s task force came up with a financial plan for the new stadium (which we knew you’d have problems with), there have been three “meetings” between the two sides. They have lasted a total of four hours, or 14,400 seconds, and not once has financing been discussed.

    The last session, which blew up over environmental impact reports that Fabiani said wouldn’t fly and City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said would, you didn’t even bother to attend, choosing to view the team’s first day of minicamp, always a thrill.

    Was watching players cavorting in shorts — and last time I checked, you weren’t even involved in the team’s everyday business and football operations anymore — more important than being in meetings regarding a stadium you’ve been seeking for 14 years? If so, it’s time to sing, as Fred and Ginger did, “Let’s call the whole thing off.”

    The task force did its level best with a truncated timetable. Faulconer is trying. Goldsmith is trying. Supervisor Ron Roberts is trying. These are pretty damn good people. You and Fabiani believe they’re politically motivated. So what? They’re elected officials. They deserve to be treated with respect. This isn’t Obama-Putin. They haven’t invaded the Ukraine.

    If you’re not serious, say so. The city and county already have spent a lot of money. The task force worked pro bono. Many smart people have put in valuable time.

    I believe a few things could be at work here.

    You could be using stall tactics, waiting to see if the NFL really is going to allow a team(s) in Los Angeles in 2016. Much must get done in a short period of time.

    You may be bluffing about Carson, which now may have too many political problems (surprise) to remain viable and litigation-free (your Carson partner, Oakland, didn’t even show up at Monday’s town hall meeting).

    You could be holding out for a downtown stadium, which we know you prefer, and a stadium/convention center expansion could be back on the table now that the idea of a contiguous center addition is dead.

    Or you could just be playing the “pain in the butt” card, which you ain’t bad at.

    These aren’t the first negotiations in history to snag. Give us a heads up, one way or another.

    Come clean. Are you going or not?

    If you say you are, sure, you’ll be a lame duck. But if, as you claim, you’ve sold around 50,000 season tickets for the upcoming season, you’ll still be flush if nobody shows up for a game.

    I’ve known you for 31 years. You aren’t the ogre people think you are. But your silence here, the furtiveness, and the rudeness of your organization when acrimony isn’t necessary, stinks.

    Just let us know. We’re big kids. We’ll get over it. We’ll have no choice.

    If only your team could play games nastier than you’re playing this one. :laugh:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Playing Devil's Advocate here quite a bit (as Ray did on the pod the other night), but this is really little more than puffery by Canepa (which is fine in a "rally the troops" sense as long as it's seen for what it is).

    If Nick is intending this to be something as an accurate report of what's going on... I'm not sure what to think, other than that a sports journalist who covers the NFL really ought to, himself, be better informed of the rules of the league. Such an declaration couldn't be made by Spanos until the league actually approves his franchise to relocate. Doing so prior to that could eat the deck out from underneath his feet, particularly when the particular stadium plan Dean seems to favor (Carson) is dependent on both he and Davis getting approved for G4/G5 loans from the league.

    In the event the worst-case scenario for Dean occurs (league backs Kroenke and Inglewood and Davis acquiesces to being a "tenant"), were he to have already said - "Yeah, we outta here. Deuces, Diego!" He'd be burning the San Diego bridge when he might need it still, if everything blows up in his face.
     
  3. House of Hayne

    House of Hayne Chargers Smash

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    649
    Ratings:
    +204
    He will answer after all ticket are sold
     
  4. Cheapseats

    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,363
    Ratings:
    +373
    We are just about there, my fifth and final installment for my 2015 seats has already hit the plastic. Single game ticket sales have apparently been pretty strong out of the gate.

    My hope is that Dean wants to see what the best possible deal is that he can get from San Diego before he makes a final decision. (...or before the NFL makes it for him.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Dean wants a Downtown stadium - which would require, almost certainly, a hotel tax (which the hoteliers, from what I believe I've read, oppose fervently), not Mission Valley. And realistically that has far, far less to do with the EIR and more to do with his belief that downtown is a more profitable endeavor and that he'll get to develop the existing land in Mission Valley into (likely) more high-rise condos.

    My gut feeling all along is that the only way Dean will commit to San Diego is if LA blows up in his face from a logistics standpoint or the proposed stadium plan is one for a DT stadium... quite possible more of a AND situation than an OR one.
     
  6. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,325
    Ratings:
    +302
    It is interesting that downtown hoteliers would be opposed to a hotel tax that would enable a stadium to be built in the area of their hotels. In theory, a stadium would increase the rate of occupancy for the hotels, which would increase their total revenue generated, especially if the hotels are within walking distance of the stadium.

    If the hotel tax is over the entire area, what potential travelers are going to make or break their plans to stay in San Diego due to the imposition of a minor hotel tax? They will pay $150.00 per night, but not $155.00 per night? (That would be a 3+% new hotel tax--I haven't read what number, if any, has actually been proposed for the new hotel tax rate.)
     
  7. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Yeah, I know. Sounded a bit off to me too. But the guy whose stuff I was reading (I'll try to track it down) was pretty adamant that the hoteliers were a huge hiccup in the whole process and that Faulconer didn't want to put the onus on them because it was a forfeiture of leverage of sorts - or at least creating an unnecessary enemy at this time of folks he'd be hoping for as allies.
     
  8. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,297
    Ratings:
    +276
    I want to be optimistic, but I think they're gonna leave and give the city the finger on the way out. Only way they don't is if the LA deal completely falls apart.
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Still possible... and quite likely why Dean has let Fabiani do all the talking thus far. That was if the bolded does happen then Dean has a fall-guy to throw under the bus in an attempted mea culpa (sp? I can't spell Latin word for :poop:), even though - as was pointed out on the last pod - the "representative" doesn't speak without heavy input from who he is representing (it's doubtful that anyone reasonable is going to buy that Fabiani just went rogue while Dean was an innocent bystander).
     
  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,301
    Ratings:
    +4,412
    STADIUM TALK: It's Over for San Diego and Oakland
    BFTB - John Gennaro
    [​IMG]

    A friend of mine, who isn't a San Diego Chargers fan, asked me a question a couple of weeks ago. He's been paying attention to the stadium situation from a far and wanted to know...

    "Why aren't the Chargers and the Raiders just taking over the Farmers Field project?"

    Up to this point, I was feeling pretty confident that the Chargers were going to stay in San Diego. The Carson project has so many hilarious roadblocks in its way that it can hardly be called a 'project', and I was hoping that Stan Kroenke would hold some old grudge with Dean Spanos over his head because he doesn't need Dean's money.

    My friend had clearly lost his mind. The Farmers Field project was officially dead. AEG said themselves that they were giving up on it. Right?

    That's when my friend directed me to this:

    In an "Ask the Mayor" segment on KNX-AM (1070) radio on Thursday, Garcetti said news of the project's demise was "overreported" after AEG announced last week that it was bowing out of its Farmers Field proposal next to the Los Angeles Convention Center. Even if the sports and entertainment giant is no longer interested, Garcetti suggested that city officials would be open to the idea of someone else picking up the project.

    "We have a good stadium deal downtown if anybody wants to take us up on it," he said. "The environmental work is already done. There's political consensus around it. We're ready to go."

    L.A. Mayor Garcetti not ready to give up on downtown stadium plan - L.A. Times (March 19, 2015)

    Did he just say he's ready to build a stadium in the most desirable location in the country for any willing NFL team? He did.

    While the Carson project waits for politicians to stop fighting, and the San Diego project waits for it's high-speed EIR, and the Inglewood projects waits for the legal paperwork to clear....Farmers Field is ready to dig.

    But what about AEG? They own the project, right?

    Garcetti spokesman Yusef Robb later said the mayor was simply pointing out that until an alternative plan for the site is finalized downtown L.A. has a stadium site that is "fully entitled and available."

    Still, AEG's Farmers Field development deal with the city expires April 17 and the company has said it will not seek an extension. It's unclear how the proposal - which won full city approvals in 2012 - might be transferred to a different developer.

    Okay, fine. The deal has expired and might be able to be transferred to someone else. Just because Mayor Garcetti is out there selling goods doesn't mean anyone is buying.

    Chargers owner Dean Spanos and Raiders owner Mark Davis were in Los Angeles on Tuesday, meeting with Mayor Eric Garcetti and other political heavyweights and promoting their vision for a shared stadium in Carson.

    A spokesman for Garcetti confirmed the meeting and said the mayor "would welcome a team anywhere in the Los Angeles area."

    Chargers, Raiders owners meet with L.A., Carson officials about stadium - L.A. Times (June 30, 2015)
    Maybe my fear is getting the best of me in this situation, but why the hell would the Mayor of the City of Los Angeles be sitting down to talk with teams trying to build a stadium in the City of Carson?

    If they were actually just trying to make some inroads with the local politicians...isn't that exactly what they hired Carmen Policy to do?

    "While Mayor Garcetti frequently meets with companies looking to do business in Los Angeles, we are mindful that the Chargers, Raiders and Rams are still actively discussing stadium deals in their current cities and the NFL has not yet approved a team moving," Jeff Millman said.

    Seriously, what the ****? Am I nuts, or does that sounds like Garcetti was pitching them on Farmers Field and is now trying to keep from blowing up the Carson and Inglewood deals while they scramble to close it?

    Here's the thing...
    Farmers Field is still the best option, if it is indeed an option. The only reason it wasn't an option before was because nobody would sell their team to AEG, and now AEG appears to be out of the picture.

    Now that the Chargers have laughed in the face San Diego's efforts, and everyone has laughed in the face of Oakland's efforts, these two owners and the NFL need to figure out a solution for everyone.

    In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL put this meeting/sales pitch together. It's long been rumored that the league's favorite L.A. stadium site was downtown, as a part of 'L.A. Live', and that they were looking to expand some of their west coast operations to nearby offices as well.

    If the NFL is acting selfishly, they will pick Farmers Field over Inglewood. If they're acting unselfishly, they will do the same, because the Chargers and Raiders look unable to get fair proposals (by market standards) in their current home markets. This decision also keeps a stubborn mega-rich sometimes-enemy-of-the-league out of their prized market and back in the midwest where he can be controlled.

    If, in fact, the Farmers Field option is available (and not still, somehow, under AEG control) and ready to start digging in the next few months....that's the ballgame. The Chargers and Raiders will abandon their home markets and the Carson project, and Stan Kroenke would face a hell of a fight trying to build anything bigger than a mall in Inglewood.

    So, who's paying?
    I'm glad you asked, because it shows you're smart enough to follow the money.

    How does the Farmers Field project make more money for everyone involved?

    On February 1, 2011, Farmers Insurance Group announce it had signed a 30-year, $700 million naming rights deal for the stadium, with the stadium to be called Farmers Field. The deal was potentially worth $1 billion if two NFL teams relocated to Farmers Field.

    A billion dollars split between the Chargers and Raiders should easily cover a relocation fee, although one may not even be assessed because the NFL is nuts and can say things like "Well, where else were they going to go?" It doesn't hurt their argument that the Chargers and Raiders are probably the two most popular teams in southern California.

    When the original Farmers Field deal was announced, and voted on (and approved), the cost was to be $1 billion. It was going to be entirely privately funded. Now, it's probably closer to $1.5 billion, but could still easily be privately funded.

    Goldman Sachs, who was going to put up the cash for the Carson stadium project, has more than enough to put up the $1.5 billion loan for this one. Especially when you consider the massive profit that they would likely make on the construction of the Los Angeles Convention Center.

    If you wanted to get crazy, you could even throw AEG back into this mix. They could buy a share of the Raiders for a couple hundred millions and work as the operator of the stadium (something they love to do and are very good at), which makes them even more popular and powerful in that area of downtown Los Angeles.

    Oh, yeah...the convention center
    Remember that crap earlier this week about how Comic-Con wasn't thrilled with San Diego as its host city anymore? Well, that's almost the exact reason that L.A. has been trying to update their convention center for ages.

    Help me out if you've found some numbers more detailed than this, but someone once told me that it would cost AEG about $100 million to upgrade the LACC (if done at the same time as the construction of Farmer's Field) and that the city was looking to buy it from them when it was complete for over $400 million. That may be wrong, but they did agree to put $350 million towards adding a new wing if the Farmer's Field project does ever actually die.

    That means that not only would San Diego lose the Chargers to Farmer's Field, they could easily lose Comic-Con as well. I have to imagine that would hurt the local economy.

    How is this a win for the NFL?
    For one, all of the infrastructure and surrounding area is already built to impressive levels.

    This isn't Mission Valley or even the edge of downtown where you would have to wait a few years to have a Super Bowl there. The NFL could move the Draft to L.A. Live and host the Super Bowl there every year and not a lot of people would complain.

    Now, let's not forget that the NFL does not have stadiums in New York City or Boston or San Francisco or Dallas and you start to realize just how valuable a stadium in downtown Los Angeles might be. It's a hell of a lot sexier than a stadium in Carson, which is akin to what those other cities have done.

    This is all speculation, right?
    Right!

    I don't know anything. None of this is news. Some of it is based off of tips from sources, but most of those are so old that they can barely be considered anything of value at this point. This is simply you living inside my fear-addled mind for a little while.

    The fact is, Farmers Field makes the most sense for the Chargers, Raiders, the NFL, and Los Angeles. I had assumed, to this point, that there was some legal reason that it couldn't happen....but if that's true, I'm confused as to why the Chargers and Raiders are meeting with Garcetti.

    The problem with all of this, of course, is that San Diego and Oakland lose. But it may be too late to do anything about that.
     
  11. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
  12. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    4,551
    Ratings:
    +1,807
    Fabiani's job is to be the bad guy - after all the years of trying to get something done in SD I'm not surprised the team is taking this position - it's time to play hardball.

    San Diego needs to get it's **** together or they will lost the NFL and Comic Con. The Hotelier's are a major obstacle but even they will need to face the fact that losing even just losing Comic Con would be a huge hit to the local economy. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Downtown is the better long-term solution for sure and there's definitely room to increase the ToT and rental car tax rates to help with funding costs (we have one of the lowest rental car rates in the country).
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,301
    Ratings:
    +4,412
    Chargers job listing requires willingness to move to Los Angeles

    The possibility of the San Diego Chargers moving to Los Angeles seems to be very real, and the team is making sure potential new employees are aware.

    The Chargers recently posted a job listing for a Tax Manager to deal with “tax reporting and compliance within the organization.” The requirements for the job seem fairly standard for the position. Applicants need a BA in accounting or an MA in taxation, CPA certification and a minimum five years of experience with a CPA firm. Oh and there’s one other thing: “Willing to relocate to the Los Angeles area, if necessary.”

    [​IMG]

    Oakland Raiders owner Mark Davis, reportedly were in L.A. earlier this week to meet with city officials, including Mayor Eric Garcetti, about the their “vision for a shared stadium” in Carson, just outside of Los Angeles.

    Negotiations between the Chargers and the city of San Diego for a new stadium (replacing Qualcomm Stadium, which opened in 1967) have gone nowhere. The Chargers cited environmental concerns last month when they said a public vote for a new stadium was not feasible. Meanwhile, San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer said the team has not been a “willing partner” in the negotiations.

    The proposed stadium for the Chargers and Raiders would cost an estimated $1.7 billion with an approximate completion date of 2019.

    - - - - - - -

    Sam Cooper is a contributor for the Yahoo Sports blogs
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
  14. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,203
    Ratings:
    +1,026
    That ship sailed a looong whole ago Syd! Spanos has had his eyes on the ultimate prize (the LA riches) for a while now and seems to consider an LA NFL based franchise as his, first and foremost, by any "natural law".

    Has the City been and is the City inept? Yes, definitely! However, I don't buy the simplistic good cop / bad cop argument via a vis, Spanos and Fabiani. If the City of SD had the cojones, they ought to flip the bird to Spanos and give a sweetheart A la Carte, all expenses paid, money is no object kinda deal to Kroenke and his Rams :laugh:
     
  15. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    4,551
    Ratings:
    +1,807
    I can pretty much guarantee that's not true - but you're welcome to your opinion of Mr. Spanos and his intentions ;) even when you're 110% wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,203
    Ratings:
    +1,026
    I like that extra 10% bonus point on top :D
     
  17. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,301
    Ratings:
    +4,412
    10% extra greedy. ;)
     
  18. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,203
    Ratings:
    +1,026
    What was it that Gordon Gekko had said again? Originally, I wasn't old enough then to remember ;)
     

Share This Page