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Vikings need to pursue Chargers’ Jackson

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by chargerlipz, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. chargerlipz

    chargerlipz Leading the league in nose hairs.

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    Article from Yahoo.

    Last month, when Minnesota Vikings owner Zygi Wilf upgraded Brett Favre’s(notes) deal so that the 40-year-old quarterback could earn up to $20 million in 2010, some of Wilf’s peers rolled their eyes.

    As one rival owner said, “It’s great for the league, but I’ve never seen anyone get down on his knees and let one player dictate to a franchise the way he has with Favre.”

    I give Wilf credit for aggressively pursuing a championship at all costs – he understandably feels the Vikings’ Super Bowl hopes rest with Favre, and his prospects of getting a new stadium in Minneapolis (the team’s Metrodome lease expires after the 2011 season) may ride on the future Hall of Famer’s golden right arm as well.

    More From Michael SilverGreed is good for Titans, Johnson Aug 30, 2010 Players aren't quick to yield on 'enhanced season' Aug 26, 2010 AdChoices
    What Wilf needs to do now is finish the job by doing what it takes to swing a trade for disgruntled San Diego Chargers wideout Vincent Jackson(notes). And he needs to do it by the end of the week.

    Here’s the situation: Favre’s top target from last season, Pro Bowl receiver Sidney Rice(notes), recently underwent hip surgery and was placed on the physically unable to perform list, meaning he’ll miss the first six games of the season. He could be out even longer than that, depending upon how the rehab goes.

    The Vikes’ next most reliable option at wideout, dynamic second-year speedster Percy Harvin(notes), continues to struggle with migraine headaches that consistently keep him out of practices and call his game-day availability into question. In a scary incident last month at Minnesota’s practice facility, Harvin collapsed and was taken away by ambulance. Harvin said last Saturday night that he believes doctors have found the “main cause” of his migraines and that “everything should be behind me.” Still, that’s hardly a rock-solid guarantee that he’ll be good to go on any given Sunday.

    Meanwhile, Jackson continues a contract stalemate with the Chargers that shows no signs of ending happily. As San Diego general manager A.J. Smith indicated to me in July, the franchise has no intention of offering a long-term contract to Jackson, a restricted free agent who has yet to sign his one-year tender offer with the team.

    Jackson, who made the Pro Bowl in ’09 after a second consecutive 1,000-yard receiving season, is reportedly seeking a five-year, $50-million contract with $30 million in guaranteed money. The Chargers reduced Jackson’s one-year tender offer from $3.268 million to $583,000 in mid-June, and last Friday he told the NFL Network that he’ll “absolutely” sit out the 2010 campaign if he doesn’t get the long-term deal he seeks.

    Based on past experience, Smith is not going to budge – indeed, he prides himself upon his obstinacy in such situations. He did give Jackson’s agents, Neil Schwartz and Jonathan Feinsod, permission to discuss a trade with the Seattle Seahawks late last month, but no deal came to fruition. Schwartz later told Yahoo! Sports that the Chargers have refused to allow him to speak to other interested teams and that he was told there are teams to which they don’t want to trade the receiver. My guess is that the Vikings, who play in the NFC, are not one of those teams.

    The reason Jackson’s representatives need to be contacted by a potential trade partner is that presumably no franchise would want to risk swinging a deal for the wideout without first agreeing to the parameters of a long-term deal. Otherwise Jackson, who will already miss the first three games of the season for violating the NFL’s personal-conduct policy, could be a one-year rental poised to bolt after the ’10 season (depending upon the rules of a new collective bargaining agreement between the owners and the NFL Players Association).

    An owner desperate to win in 2010 might view things from a different perspective, however, and if Wilf really wants to give his team the best shot at a first Super Bowl championship, he’ll go after Jackson as aggressively and shamelessly as he did Favre in each of the past two offseasons.

    What would it take? Only Smith, Jackson and his agents know for sure, but here’s how I’d advise Wilf to approach the situation:

    • Have vice president of football operations Rob Brzezinski get on the phone with Smith and offer a conditional third-round draft pick for 2011 that hinges on the Vikings’ success this season (if Minnesota reaches, say, the NFC championship game for a second consecutive year, the pick could be upgraded to a second-rounder). I’m told Smith has been asking for a second-round pick in 2011 and a third-round pick in 2012. Faced with the prospect of getting nothing for Jackson this season, and with a potential lockout looming, I suspect owner Dean Spanos might tell the GM to lower his demands and get the deal done.

    • If the Chargers sign off, I’d then have Brzezinski call Schwartz and offer Jackson a one-year deal for, say, $6 million – with the promise that the Vikings wouldn’t use a franchise tag to retain Jackson following the 2010 campaign. That would still open the door for the Vikes to hammer out a long-term contract for Jackson, if both sides are so inclined; if not this would essentially be a one-year rental of Jackson’s services to protect Wilf’s investment in Favre.

    • I’d do this right now. That’s because, on Aug. 20, the Chargers placed Jackson on something called the roster-exempt list, subjecting him to an immediate three-game suspension when he reports. However, if Jackson signs by Sept. 4, he can serve that suspension concurrently with the league-mandated three-game suspension. If he signs any later than Sept. 4, he’ll have to serve the suspensions consecutively and miss six games – don’t ask me why this is so; who knows? – though the NFLPA might challenge that technicality. But the bottom line is that for this assuredly to be worth the Vikings’ while, they’ll need Jackson signed, sealed and delivered by Saturday.

    I’m not positive Wilf can pull this off, but I’d sure like to see him try (and not just because I’ll soon be unveiling my fifth annual owner rankings and would love to give him some props). Think of it this way, Zygi: Since you’re already perceived as being down on your knees, why not take one last, frantic swing for the fences before the games begin?

    Here's a link.
     
  2. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    A conditional 3rd? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. We are likely to get a conditional 3rd already for him (although not guaranteed to be a 3rd), so would we let him go for a pick that would likely be within 10 picks of that conditional pick? What the hell is this guy talking about?

    Maybe a 2nd with a conditional 3rd. If they meet the conditions, we get the 2012 3rd that AJ wants. If they don't, then we don't get that pick, but we still get a 2nd in 2011
     
  3. markrc99

    markrc99 BoltTalker

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    This guy, Mike Silver, writes stories for a living and that's all this is. First, he's acknowledging that there are no current discussions between the Vikings and Chargers, from which permission is required before any formal negotiations with Jackson can begin. The first problem with this scenario is the very narrow time frame in which to pull this all together, as Sept 4th is just a few days away. Secondly, Jackson isn't eligible to suit up until week 4 and it seems reasonable to assume that at least a few more weeks would be required for him to get comfortable in their system. Sidney Rice is expected to miss 6 games, maybe more. So, to pawn the ranch for Jackson when Rice would be returning at around the same time Jackson would become a factor makes absolutely no sense. It's not happening!

    The point that is of interest is Smith's alleged compensation demands, which accordingly, are a 2nd rd pick in 2011 and a 3rd rd pick in 2012. We may assume that the Chargers and Seahawks are still working on Jackson and after Sept 4th, when his market value takes another hit, they might get his agent to lower the asking price. There are two things about the roster exempt rule that I don't fully understand. The significance of Sept 4th is that it's the last day before the Chargers final preseason game, for what that's worth. I still haven't seen anything to indicate that when Jackson does sign, his 3-week exempt status wouldn't begin immediately. Another confusing perception is that Jackson remains on this roster exempt list even after his rights are owned by another team. Why would his new team have to honor a clause imposed by the Chargers?
     
  4. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    From what I understand, the roster exempt list is a league wide list, not just a team list. It is like PUP or IR, once on the list, the league requires certian criteria to be met before coming off it. league has said that the 3 week for the roster exempt list could run concurrently with his 3 game league suspension if he was on a roster on Sept 4, which is the date all teams have to cut their rosters down to 53. If he is not on a 53 man roster at that point, which he can't be until he is under contract (Which he isn't right now), then his suspension kicks in. While he is suspended, he cannot report to any team, even the Chargers. He is not allowed at any facilities, any practices, and not alowed ot be on a 53 man roster. So since he cannot report to a team until after his suspension is up, the 3 games from the roster exempt list cannot go into affect until he is on a roster, no matter what team that is with.

    Therefor, if he signs with the Chargers or is traded to another team and signs with them prior to Sept, he will be on that teams 53 man roster and the 3 games he misses for being on the list will be counted as the 3 games he is suspended. If he isn't signed by then, he will miss 6 games.

    I wonder if he can even be traded during this time. Since he cannot report to a team, how can he sign a contract? Does that eman we won't even be able to trade him until week 3? maybe week 6?
     
  5. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    The roster exemption is something in which each team must apply the way I understand it. It protects the club and not the entire league and it is not transferable.

    If Jackson signs with another team then that team must ask for the exemption and the roster exemption "may" be granted by the league.

    The exemption also does not force a club to cut a player just because a tender is signed. It protects the player roster by allowing 54 players instead of 53 until the player is ready and up to speed. The exemption also covers the scenario where a player signs his tender and then the player sandbags (like Merriman's chronic achilles - yeah right). Why cut someone hurting the team when the signing player is going to be a dick and play like one because they did not get their jack ? The roster exempt is not only a punishment but a protection mechanism for the team.
     
  6. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Every year someone loses their mnd

    This is exactly what I am talking about with respect to WAITING for the suitors to start salivating as the season progresses and our holdout VJ.

    There is no rush to move VJ.

    None.

    Wilf appears to be the next Dan Synder and then there is Jerry Jones who gave up a 1st and 3rd and 7th for Roy Williams.

    The war drums are beating.

    Now do the Vikings have any linemen to trade ?
     
  7. markrc99

    markrc99 BoltTalker

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    'preciate the insight, thank you both. Two different views there if I'm reading you both correctly, although DenverBolt67 did mention that "under certain criteria" perhaps the exemption could be reconsidered.

    Trumpet Man:

    With respect to the strategy of waiting, I've certainly been at a loss to explain it. At the same time I don't view it as a "strategy" but rather a reality beyond Smith's or anyone's control. I'm convinced now that no team is interested in Vincent Jackson until he has served his suspension. Think about it, who was going to invest tens of millions, relinquish high draft picks and the first thing they get is Jackson serving a suspension for conduct violations. That's just not the way you want to start. His suspension is something that's going to be recognized as a Charger.

    In the other thread I posted a number of articles dated late June, citing teams unwilling to part with 1st & 3rd rd draft picks. I think the uncertainly of Jackson's suspension, which was announced July 1st, also factored in. I think the time frame we probably should view as most likely is when Jackson gains eligibility. Yeah, I think at that time Smith will open the auction doors. With that said, again, Washington may have made very clear what Jackson can expect from them, which may well be far and away his best offer. You have to concede that Smith is limited to negotiating with the teams that Jackson is willing to play for. Neil Schwartz knows this, Bruce Allen knows this and AJ Smith knows this. Smith can demand a 2nd rd draft pick, that's all he has.
     
  8. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    How can you possibly think that he will have as much value when he can play only 10 games with a team as when when he can only play 10?
     
  9. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    It is hard to say who does or doesn't have interest in him, when no one but the Seahawks is allowed to talk to him. No team (other than the Seahawks) is even allowed to talk to his agent and find out what he wants for a contract.

    I am not saying we should just rush into a trade, but not allowing him to talk to other teams makes no sense whats so ever.

    I understand teams not wanting to pay a 1st and 3rd for him, and that isn't going to change, but a 2nd and 3rd is a completely different situation especially when they are not in the same year
     
  10. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    It does make sense. If Acee was right VJ is broke. And by rights VJ should drop his demands. But now we are into a point where it is all about principal. And you have two hard headed poker players going at it, and neither one will back down. We will win without VJ so he is gone. VJ wants #1 receiver money but Antonio Gates will be our #1 guy. After every TD we get this year at home, should the crowd chant VJ, VJ, VJ, VJ, VJ.
     
  11. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    i agree with you, they way i see it is if the seahawks are desperate enough we can rape them with jackson just like we did with whitehurst. so if the seahawks take the trade, im calling we get 1st,3rd, and a 5th, n in return we give them vj and one of 2nds
     
  12. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    It is easy to say when VJ had his chance to speak to everyone.

    Why do you keep saying VJ is not allowed to talk to the league ? He had (past tense) his chance. He was given another chance with the Seahawks.

    Why allow VJ to do it again ?

    Did you not get the message ?

    No takers.

    AJ has said in the past that a 1st and 3rd are negotiable. If that is the case, then the players demands are the criteria which are not reasonable.
     
  13. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I agree that he isn't worth the money he is asking for, but I do not think his demands will be lowed until he is able to talk to more than one team and is being told by multiple teams he is asking for too much. As long as he can't speak to any other teams, he will still believe he is worth what his agent tells him he is worth, and as long as his agent is bankrolling him, he won't care.

    I also agree we will be fine without him, which is why he should be traded, and traded ASAP. The longer this controversy is lingering over the head of this team, the longer it will be before they can move on. I am sure the players are tired of being asked about VJ and McNeil, and the sooner they don't have to answer those questions anymore, the sooner they can move on with their year
     
  14. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I seriously doubt we get a 1st in a deal involving VJ. If we could have received that amount, they could have signed him early in the off season for a 1st and 3rd
     
  15. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Aj smith is your god

    AJ Smith (the Chargers) hold VJ's rights.

    That is control.

    Next, the longer teams wait to bid for VJ's services, the chances greatly increase someone will make an offer that the Chargers will bite on thereby you and everyone else loses the VJ sweepstakes. If VJ hits the open market, it is cheaper to sign him NOW verus later when 30 other hungry dogs want a piece of that meat.
     
  16. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    You nor I have any idea who was interested, what he is asking for, or what the Chargers are demanding as compensation. So everything you say is pure speculation. We don't know if it was his price or the Chargers price that pushed teams away. We also don't know how many teams put off talking to him because they thought they could address their WR needs in the draft or a team like the Vikes who thought their WR situation was great. Things change, and his demands will not change unless he gets told by multiple teams he is asking for too much, that is a fact. You nor I would change what we want out of a job just because the only 2 companies we have talk to say we aren't worth what we want. There are 30 other teams that may think he is NOW worth what the Chargers and VJ are asking for, where he wasn't 6 months ago
     
  17. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I have no idea where you way of thinking came from. The longer we wait, the less we will be able to demand, plain and simple. If he isn't traded by Sept 4, he will only be able to play on another team for 10 weeks rather than 13. And he is worth more playing in 13 games than he is for 10 weeks
     
  18. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    agreed i think the sea hawks should pursue him, let get the jerry jones type trade 1st,3rd,5th, n we give him vj and a 2nd
     
  19. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    It is common sense. VJ wants to get his best deal and had his opportunity earlier this year. AJ has said in the past even with Brees that the door was open for negotiation when Brees was tendered a non-exclusive franchise tag. That sent a signal to the league Brees could be traded. The Chargers could have tagged Brees "Exclusive" which pays the same BUT Brees would not be allowed to speak to any teams whatsoever.

    Did you ever ask yourself why AJ let VJ speak to the Seahawks when he did not have to do it ? The reason should be clear given AJ's history.
     
  20. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Why does his trade value automatically go down ?

    What happens when teams start seeing their WR's drop like flies and they are expecting to make a playoff run ?

    Does VJ's value go down as in the case we are seeing with the Vikings who could use a WR to compliment Favre who apparently owns Ziggy Wilf the owner ?

    You are using the justification of playing limited games after suspensions or whatever. Who cares when the team is all about the playoffs ? So long as teams get this deal done by the Week 6 trading deadline - we have no reason to trade VJ now because of some "cloud" or media questions. The players will move on the same way they did when John Jefferson or Wes Chandler or even LT jammed.
     
  21. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    If we wait until there is a HIGHER demand for a top receiver then he'll be of more value. That's how waiting helps us.
     
  22. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    What ever dude. Go ahead and continue with you ridiculous and shortsighted way of thinking
     
  23. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The Vikes area already seeing the WR's drop like flies, but we are still not allowing them to talk to VJ.

    As you said, it is common sense. 13 weeks with a guy is more valuable than 10 weeks with the guy. Teams know it will take a couple weeks for a guy to get up to speed and to become an sort of an impact. If a player doesn't get to the team until week 7, they know it isn't very likely he makes any impact till week 10-11, which by that time they could be in a dog fight for a playoff spot where if they get the player in week 4 and he is making an impact week 7-8, they still have plenty of time to ensure themselves a playoff spot.

    As I said, the longer we wait, the less value he will have
     
  24. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Mid-season trades for WR's rarely make a big impact on the team trading for the player. Teams all know this which is why mid-season trade rarely happen, and when they do, they rarely have an impact.
     
  25. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Your reasons for VJ losing value or having to trade him now to avoid distractions does not pass the smell test.

    We will win the division without VJ regardless.

    AJ is floating a 2nd and a 3rd for VJ according to the rumor mill.

    You need to have a better business sense instead of knee jerk management. You do not even address what message you send to the rest of the players by allowing VJ to talk to other teams when that is not what was agreed upon. What happens to the next player who refuses to sign his tender ? You have now just set a precedent for other players to follow. Bravo. You are fired.
     
  26. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    This is a copout excuse. Just because it is rare means nothing. It has happened in the past and maybe not as often as you would like but nevertheless it has happened. I use the example of the Lions Roy Willams for a 1st and 3rd and 7th to the Cowboys and the jury is still out on that Week 6 trade last year.
     
  27. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    Cowboys still may trade or cut Patrick Crayton

    Posted by Michael David Smith on September 2, 2010 1:34 PM ET
    There's been talk about the Cowboys trading wide receiver Patrick Crayton since the day Dallas drafted Dez Bryant, and it apparently won't go away until the Cowboys cut Crayton, keep him on the 53-man roster, or find a trading partner.

    Tim MacMahon of ESPNDallas.com reports that the Cowboys are exploring the trade market for Crayton, and if they can't make a deal, there's a decent chance they'll cut him.

    Crayton said in May that the Cowboys betrayed him and that he wanted to be released, but he later softened his stance, attended some voluntary workouts and promised not to be a complainer.

    But with Miles Austin, Roy Williams and Dez Bryant all on the roster, there may not be any room for Crayton in Dallas. It's possible that he'll put on a Cowboys uniform for the last time tonight.
    Cowboys still may trade or cut Patrick Crayton | ProFootballTalk.com

    Here is the next Viking.
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I still don't get why it is some people are so insistent on Jackson's value depreciating so astronomically in the event he can play 3 less games this season. The only case where this truly depreciates his value is if a team is looking at him as a one-year rental. If they're signing him to a 3-5 year extension, it's barely going to register a lick of difference. Yes, it might register the difference between getting an extra 5th or even the 2012 3rd that AJ is after in addition to the 2011 2nd, but it's not going to suddenly kick his value down to a 2011 4th round pick, 2012 3rd, or any of that nonsense. Assuming they sign him to an extension, the team trading for Jackson is getting him not just for the 2010 season but for seasons beyond... along with the rights to negotiate even further beyond the initial extension.

    Fans tend to overvalue draft picks. I'm not saying that draft picks have no value, because they certainly do, but a fan's perspective on the value of a 2nd or 3rd round pick (particularly one two years away) is considerably inflated over that of most NFL GM's. It's a scenario that I like to refer to Family Guy for an example of: When given the choice between the boat or the mystery box, a lot of fans are going to take the mystery box (the draft pick) because of the potential it represents (it's an extension of the grass is always greener on the other side adage). In this case, yes, the boat has compromise the integrity of his hull a bit, but that is something that can be re-strengthened and repaired with time if someone is willing to put in the time and money; the boat still has the proven ability to be top flight.
     
  29. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    This. :yes:
     
  30. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    How much would the Chargers have to pay the Vike's to haul his *** away?
     

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