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VJ and McNeil situation

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by LightEmUp, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. LightEmUp

    LightEmUp Banned Banned

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    Just so awesome that these players know whats at stake this year and are willing to put their egos aside to get it done.

    But...

    I cant put all the blame on the players.

    This is exactly how you act when you know your GM is going to play you like the stock market.

    You get what you give and the hardlined AJ Smith has found a couple hardlined players to play chicken with.

    And....

    Guess who loses out again?

    Da Fans!


    I'm so freakin pumped for this season to start. SAN DIEGO...... ARE YOU READY???? FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!!!!!

    THUNDAAAAAA naaaanaaaaa naaaa naaaaa THUNDAAAAA
     
  2. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    In the end, if McNeil and V.J. don't show up for training camp it will be because they wanted more money than the Chargers wanted to give them. Big egos are at play here and it's just a crying shame that $3+ million per season is considered "too little".

    AJ could have tried a little harder to negotiate a deal but holee crap... they both turned down huge paychecks for this coming season to prove what... ?

    :icon_shrug:
     
  3. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    jackson and mcneil got very very bad advice from thier scumbag agents.

    I don't think they realize how they've screwed themselves else they'd fire their agents and beg the chargers to take them back at a fair contract..
     
  4. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    karmas a biatch. i would laugh hella hard if we traded them and wont the superbowl :yes:
     
  5. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Screw it. I'm already in "run what ya brung" mode. If they come in, great. If they don't, we gotta move on.

    Put on your big boy/girl pants & deal with it. :lol:
     
  6. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    :icon_toast:
     
  7. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we will be drafting another WR and waiting another 3-4 years for them to develop.
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Sorry, but gross generalization much? No offense, but you seem to be a victim of tiny-thinking.

    If we decide to wait until the 2nd round to draft a guy with the physical tools (size, speed, length, vertical) that project to the "prototypical #1 WR" mold, then yes... we'll likely spend a couple seasons developing him because the guys that have those physical attributes AND have some degree of polish on the finer points of their game (route running, better-trained hands) don't last till the 2nd round of the draft.

    The thing is great quarterbacks don't need great receivers in order to produce. They don't even need prototypical WR's to produce. Look at Brady during NE's actual championship seasons (no truly great or prototypical WR on that squad). Rodgers - IIRC - led the league in passing last season with WR's who don't have either elite size or speed. If the QB has elite ball-placement then all you really need are guys who can run crisp routes and have reliable hands.

    Furthermore, even if we do end up feeling as though our hand is forced to take a WR in the 2011 draft, we're going to have the ammo to move up to get a guy who does have those measurables and a fair amount of polish if we need to (everyone is convinced that guys like Jones, Baldwin, and Floyd are going to be Top 15 picks, but WR's are always sexy picks to place higher up in mock drafts than they actually tend to go, IMO Green is the only Top 5/10 lock right now barring an injury).

    Furthermore, just because Vincent Jackson took the time he did to develop doesn't mean that another receiver (even one of similar quality to what VJ was coming out of Northern Colorado) is going to take that long. The learning curve has improved of late for a number of these players and it becomes more a case of "you've either got it or you don't." Sidney Rice was contributing as a legitimate deep-threat in his 2nd year and was turning into a monster threat by the mid-point of his 3rd season. Steve Smith contributed extremely well his sophomore season. Eddie Royal emerged as a viable starter as a rookie. DeSean Jackson was contributing at near starter levels as a rookie and was leading his team as a sophomore. And that's just the guys taken recently in the 2nd round and after, ignoring the likes of Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin, and (pre-injury) Nicks.
     
  9. Alpenbolt

    Alpenbolt BoltTalker

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    Time for Buster "Hangnail" Davis to show us what he has got. Boy if this guy doesn't take advantage of this golden opportunity he just doesn't have it.
     
  10. msmith

    msmith BoltTalker

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    Well said. I would like to add that many successful WRs who being drafted in low rounds contributed right away, i.e. Steve Smith (3rd round), Colston (7th), and our very own Antonio Gates (walkon). Okay, Gates is a TE but he turns out to be the best receiver we have.

    Another thing, a great qb can make his receivers to play better.
     
  11. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    right on. it's put up or STFU for buster this year.
     
  12. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    Who the F are you? :icon_shrug:
    Anyway I do not need to argue the point because you argued it for me. Very Steve Jobs like.
     
  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Wow, I see who wears the bright and cheery pants around here. :icon_wtf:

    Actually you were contending that it would take us 3 to 4 years to develops a player of VJ's quality, I contended that 1) We don't need a receiver of that "quality" to succeed/win/produce and 2) Showed evidence of numerous instances in which it hasn't taken 3 to 4 years from his draft year as you contended for a WR to produce at a meaningful level even when selected outside of the 2nd round (provided scouting is on the ball with their evaluations and who is selected).

    And furthermore... maybe I'm a bit idealistic, but I want no part of stupid players (and a guy that goes out and collects his 2nd DUI the night/morning before a PLAYOFF GAME, then behaves the way he did in reaction is not exuding any sort of brilliance). Jackson made a dumb decision, not once but now twice, and now he wants to essentially pretend like none of it ever happened because he's got talent. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it in my book.

    When you have an elite QB one of the luxuries you have is that so long as their hands aren't garbage you can still win and produce with the mentality that WR's are pretty much as dime-a-dozen as RB's are. Yes, you can put a price on chemistry, but as long as his foot checks out, PR's #1 receiver isn't going anywhere, which means that teams double-teaming any wideout on the field for us at their own peril.

    Really for the best example, you need look no further than what Peyton Manning was able to accomplish through the likes of Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon last season.
     
  14. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is me! Just ask Nate Kaeding! :lol:

    Seriously there are not many WR's that will help us the first two to three years. Out of all of the WR rookies how many can step up and fill in for VJ? None. There are a few exception that have done fairly well but they have been on teams that have had strong WR's. We do not. You seem to think that we do not need a true #1 WR. I have to disagree. Gates health is sketchy and if he is out then who is going to be the man? Floyd?? Ok the double team him and that leaves us with....?
    But you do agree that a #1 type of WR does need at least a couple years to develop?? Most cross over in year #3. You mentioned Steve Smith and Eddie Royal. They did fine but were not dominate. Royal was more of a special teams guy and when Marshall was gone he vanished. As for Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon, they also had Reggie Wayne. I am not arguing that someone could not contribute. I am arguing that we will not get to the big game without a #1 WR.
     
  15. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    What's going on with McNeill and VJ? Did this just happen? :icon_huh:

    Thanks for starting a thread and bringing this very troubling situation to light. :tup:
     
  16. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who he is either. I do know that he took the time to correct me once even though I wasn't wrong. You have to respect a guy who can sneak "furthermore" into a post multiple times, tho. :lol:

    I guess he's here to educate us.
     
  17. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    ...and then goes in to edit out a "furthermore" afterwards like it never happened. :icon_rofl:
     
  18. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Wow - so a guy makes a few pretty informed posts, IMO, & some of you are intimidated & go into attack mode?

    How very B4L of you. :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl:
     
  19. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    :icon_finger:
     
  20. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    :icon_toast:
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Uh... :icon_huh: don't know what you're talking about there. Haven't edited a post yet on BT. But if it makes you feel better to tell yourself so, go right ahead. No skin off my back.
     
  22. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Not really. They advised their clients that more money could be made if they ............ did what they are doing. I do not blame the players despite the money being dangled.
     
  23. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    LONG LIVE

    BOLTS

    4

    LIFE
     
  24. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Damn straight. Well said slugger and Aspenbolt. This is a make or
    "Bust" year for Buster. He either shows us something or we take the "er" off his name and just call him "Bust"!
     
  25. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Not taking anything away from Jackson but LT's are tougher to come by. Jackson is a great fit on this team and works well with Philip, but he can be replaced. McNeil wont be as easy to replace unless Dombro is better than advertised.

    We may have the talent already on the team to replace Jackson, and with Joiner on staff I feel much more confident. The guy's we have will work hard, they have a lot to prove and may be showing their ware's off, so to speak. Lt, is a big concern as that position goes so does the passing game. If Philip is eating turf at the Murph, we all could be in for long Sunday afternoons.
     
  26. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    I'm really thinking we should just trade both mcneil and jackson for 2nd rounders if some team will do that. These guys are just out for big money. And very probably won't play a down this year for the chargers for the small money offered now so trade em. Get something that we can use to keep on building the team.
     
  27. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I don't blame them for wanting more money but good lord, you have to be the dumbest agent ever to suggest this was a good move for VJ and Mcneil. Let's see

    -No leverage as an RFA especially one where the majority have signed their deals without complaint
    -worries about uncertain labor situation
    -potential strike looming
    -few players have gotten long term deals this year
    -Bad situation where player got screwed
    -GM who doesn't **** around with people who hold out
    -GM who DOES take care of his own

    and yet holding out was the right call? You have to be dumb to think this
     
  28. Ray Dahayder

    Ray Dahayder BoltTalker

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    ....to prove how stupid they are and how they don't care about winning or their own team mates. The hard part to figure is that they probably both would get their long term contracts after this season, too. They are the only players, except a guy on the patriots, to not sign the tender. Hard to figure out, but how do you come in and look your team mates in the face after the tenth week?
     
  29. Camilo

    Camilo BoltTalker

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    Hey guys, just wanted to chime in a little. I rarely ever do. I'm going to try to make this short. I WANT TO F____KING WIN NOW! Not next year or the year after. I'm tired of thinking of the future. Been doing that for over 20 years. We drafted and developed both of these guys. Thats been our philosophy. No big free agents. I get it. Its easy for me to say pay, its not my money. Its easy for me to say sign, its not my life and I WISH I was that good. Not many are. The only thing I know is that I am tired of excuses. I want it NOW. Thinking of trading and developing makes me sick. Develope for what? More trading? Nah, we got horses now. Figure out a way to compramise (spelling?). These guys have big and smart brains with numbers that most of us may never understand and figure out ways, regardless of what happens next year and get in F___ing town. No one can say that we are better off without them. Why do we have to suffer as fans because millionaires are fighting with other millionaires. I wouldn't be that pissed off if "supposedly" we are close to winning a championship. Well, maybe we are not? More excuses. I'm tired and I am STILL upset about the Jet game. I can't take it anymore. Sorry for turning this into a rant. Whats up Ant? And its good to see you out and about Trumpet. Take care everyone.
     
  30. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    This sounds like the Camilo I know. :icon_twisted: :yes: :icon_toast:
     

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