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We Need More Debating

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by boltsnow, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    If we are gonna label Kaeding as a choke artist should we also consider Rivers? Nate was money during the regular but always fails in the playoffs. In regards to a interception to TD ratio Rivers has had some of the best numbers in the regular season yet I believe he has more interceptions then TD's in the playoffs.

    Just sayin.....

    :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
     
  2. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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  3. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    There's no debate. Rivers has defenders coming in to destroy him. Kaeding misses 2 non-pressure, easily make-able FG's that was the difference in the game. Plus it isn't the first playoff game he's loss for us. So Kaeding by far is Captian Choke Artist.
     
  4. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    Agreed. But in the playoffs, every possession counts. When you turn the ball over you are giving yourself one less chance to score and the other team an extra possession to score. When you lose you lose for a reason and those things can't be over looked. Heck, you can even say Rivers is giving Nate one less chance to redeem himself with every pick he throws. You don't think that int he threw from the endzone didn't hurt us?

    Just sayin....

    :popcorn::popcorn:
     
  5. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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  6. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Let's cut Rivers NOW!!!
     
  7. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    Exactly! Doesn't that sound just stupid to even be thinking that? Yet Kaeding in reality isn't that much different then Rivers yet most are calling for his head. :popcorn::popcorn:
     
  8. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Rivers 2 picks didn't cost us that game. Kaedings 2 misses did. Pro Bowl QB's are rare. Pro Bowl FG kickers can be replaced.
     
  9. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    Giving the Jets the ball in the red zone leading to their only passing TD doesn't cost us the game?

    Throwing an INT (however lucky it may have been for them) when we could have been in the red zone doesn't cost us the game?

    Football is a team sport. You can't put the entire blame on one person.

    Rivers' INTs (especially that second one) hurt us just as much as Nate's missed FGs did.

    But....you are right that kickers are easier to replace.
     
  10. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    Have to agree with Hollywood. If you want to be real technical, Rivers INT directly led to a TD. Take that TD away and we win 14-10. It's all in the way that you lok at it. I still believe we hold them after the INT if it wasn't for a boneheaded play by Phillips to give them the extra yards. That has to deflate the others on defense when some idiot puts himself above the team and their goals. It was a hard fought game to begin with and to give them a huge boost the way he did,,,,,well,,,,,STUPID!!!

    :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
     
  11. CaptainTapp

    CaptainTapp BoltTalker

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    I'm not calling for Kaeding's head but here is why what he did was FAR worse than what Rivers did. First off, I take one missed FG from Kaeding (the 57 yarder which most kickers would miss) and one interception from Rivers (the fluke interception by Revis) putting Kaeding at two missed FG's that were his fault, Rivers at one true interception that was his fault.

    Rivers interception, while stupid as hell, was also partially because Gates may have run the wrong route, and also because Rivers was sitting in his own endzone facing a great pass rush and was facing incredible pressure to "make a play" because the entire team had been playing like crap. And why was he in such a pressure cooker? Because Kaeding couldn't make that first damn FG to at least put the Chargers two scores ahead! Kaeding, as a previous poster already said, was facing no pass rush, the only pressure he faced was entirely in his own head.

    Not to mention that later on in the game when Rivers made up for his mistake by starting to complete passes, getting us in FG range, and as LL Cool J would say, "going all PHILIP RIVERS" on them, KAEDING MISSES ANOTHER FIELD GOAL, effectively destroying the momentum and making any attempt to rally that much more difficult, not to mention that every missed FG is effectively a turnover as well, putting the other team in that much better field position, much like an interception. So while Rivers had one interception (that I would blame on him) and two touchdowns, not to mention two drives that got us in FG range, Kaeding had two missed FG's/turnovers (that I would blame on him) and... nothing else.

    It's an unfair double-standard in a way, because while Rivers can make up for his picks by leading another scoring drive poor Kaeding can only wait for another chance to kick. But that's the game. The fact is that Rivers scored the 14 points to get us in a position to win. Kaeding missed the six points that would have actually won it, and probably put the whole team in a funk after his first miss put doubt in their minds. To even compare the two makes no sense in my book.
     
  12. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    You all did not listen to the Prophet (wait that name is taken), I mean the New Messiah! You all act as if you are surprised. I have been telling you for years that he is a choke artist. Did any of you see Jay Feeley on ESPN 2 talking about Nates playoff misses? He said they were all mental. In other words he is a "playoff psychotic". Look at the dude. He does not actually exude confidence. :lol:
    As for Rivers, he has more pass attempts than Nate has FG's. Different position, different circumstances.
     
  13. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    Rivers second int was a really bad mistake (his first was a fluke) and it did cost the Chargers

    but if you think Rivers played as bad as Keading and that he is as much to blame as Keaing then the only thing I can say is...

    You are wrong, and not just wrong but nearing B4L level wrong
     
  14. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    I'll give it to you guys this was a team loss. I just don't feel very confident if we need Nate to hit a huge FG to tie or win the game while he's up there lining up for the kick. I don't think I can watch. I don't want to be in that position again. Damn Nate better work with a sports psychologist or Anthony Robbins or something to fix that. In close games it's going to come down to FG's and right now I have ZERO confidence in Kaeding. Missing a kick in a playoff game as a rookie in 2004 in the rain is one thing. Missing a two makable kicks to probably get a win after you've been Pro Bowler for years is inexcusable imo.
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Spin it however you like, giving the ball to the other team in the red zone is always a boneheaded mistake.

    What Kaeding did was horrible and was a big factor, but to say he is the only reason we lost is being VERY naive.
     
  16. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    All i'm saying is Rivers made a mistake that was just as costly as any of Nate's missed FGs. :icon_shrug:

    His INT in the Jets red zone cost us 7 points.

    Nate's two missed makeable FGs cost us 6.

    So, tell me which one cost us more?
     
  17. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    first, Rivers INT didn't cost 7 points, the defense had something to do with that also

    second, Rivers did A LOT to help his team win, what did Nate do?
     
  18. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    There's not much the defense can do when they're put in that kind of position.

    Even the best defenses in the NFL will give up the occasional touchdown when the other team is given the ball that close.

    I can also argue that Nate wouldn't be lining up for missed FGs if the offense (which includes Rivers) converts on third down.

    But thanks for backing up my point that it's a team sport and you can't blame just one guy for the loss.

    Nate's a kicker. It's hard for him to do more when he only has one job.

    What do you want him to do? Go out there and tackle Rivers and take over as QB so he can throw a TD pass or something?

    Look. I'm not defending Nate Kaeding. His missed FGs were a HUGE factor in the loss.

    But I'm not the one that made the claim that he's the sole person to blame. I'm simply pointing out that Rivers (as well as other people) made mistakes that were just as costly.
     
  19. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    Agreed.

    What is scary is that ne matter how much therapy sessions he would go to, he is still gonna be one tense son-of-a-***** the next time he is put in that position. Scares the hell out of me just to think about it.
     
  20. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    as far as blame goes (for players) I'd say Nate deserves 70%, Rivers maybe 10%, Phillips, Cromartie, Weddle and others the other 20%
     
  21. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I won't disagree with this.

    I did agree with you in my initial reply that it's much easier to replace a kicker than it is to replace a QB (not that that's what boltsnow was really trying to argue...)

    I just don't agree with the notion that Nate Kaeding is the only one who cost us that game.

    You can't blame just one person for a loss in a team sport.

    Rivers' INTs, especially that 2nd one, were just as bad as the missed FGs.

    They just don't stand out as much because, as a QB, he was also involved in some good plays.
     
  22. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Nate: 35%
    Cromartie: 30%
    Rivers: 25%
    Phillips: 8%
    Everyone else: 2%

    I'm sorry, but giving the other team the ball in the red zone in a close game is back breaking.

    Phillips' percentage would be higher if it was in any other drive. STUPID STUPID play, but during a drive that shouldn't have existed in the first place.
     
  23. BoltzRule

    BoltzRule Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but I disagree completely with you hollywood. Sure an INT hurts, but that INT wasn't returned for a TD, the defense easily could have stopped them for 3 (only needed 1 more stop). We would have still won the game.

    And really you don't know if it was 100% Rivers' fault, were all the routes ran correctly? Plus he was getting pressured. Rivers put us in positions to score 20(23 if you count the long FG) points. That would have been enough to win, even with his INT. Kaeding did nothing to contribute to a potential win.

    I'd rank the loss:
    Kaeding 65%
    Cromartie 20%
    Rivers 8%
    The rest 7%

    It's not like the snaps or holds were bad there was no reason for Kaeding to miss either of those 2 kicks.
     
  24. BoltzRule

    BoltzRule Well-Known Member

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    If you take out the game where he played with the messed up knee his QB rating would be 85.6 in the postseason which is comparable to Brady and Peyton's career postseason QB rating (both in the mid 80's).
     
  25. CaptainTapp

    CaptainTapp BoltTalker

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    Lol. I put together a detailed argument of why Rivers play was not nearly as bad as Kaeding's and your response is that I am "spinning" things. I did not say Kaeding is fully responsible for the loss. My main point was that Rivers did lots of things to help the Chargers and one thing that really hurt. Kaeding on the other hand did nothing but hurt us in that game. I admit it is too difficult to compare two entirely different positions because Rivers has far more opportunities to make up for that one mistake while Kaeding can't, but the fact remains Kaeding did more to lose us that game than anybody else. It's not entirely his fault, but he makes those two field goals and we are all happy this week.
     
  26. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    :yes: Ah but fugget. We lost, let's move on.....
     
  27. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Try reading more than just my response to you. That's not the only post I made in this thread.

    Rivers doesn't give the Jets the ball in the red zone and we are all happy this week.
     
  28. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    serously?
    :lol:
     
  29. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    Time to make this thread worthy...

    TURN IT UP...



    Fuuck you for questioning the unquestioned leader of this football team
     
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  30. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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