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What is concerning me....

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Before you guys and gals go on the war path at least try and read this in some frame of neutrality. For my part I think based on the decimation of the coaching staff that it is a somewhat logical step to remove Marty.

    Here is my thinking:
    Marty did not sign the one year extension, which I personally believe lead the coaches to feel they had no long term job security.
    Marty and AJ were (by reports) having more problems based on coaching decisions. I for one thank AJ if he blocked Marty from hiring Kurt.
    After the playoff loss I said we should keep Marty. I don’t see that loss as a reflection on how the game was coached, more how our players executed or didn’t execute.
    That was to keep continuity, continuity which was shattered with the dissection of last season’s coaching staff.

    So I think other than the timing, just a few days prior to the Combine, this was a good thing for the Chargers. It allows us to get continuity going forward for a presumably a long period of time (2-4 years is not out of the question).

    However, what concerns me is that two grown men could not get along. For this I blame both Marty and AJ. You would think that grown men who have been in their profession as long as they have would have developed some interpersonal skills. Apparently they did not. I do not give AJ a free ride here as many of you do. He has assembled a great team. But he has also shown an unwillingness to work with people.

    He has in my opinion made it clear if you are not an AJ guy, you are not a Charger. That is a GMs job, agreed. But a GM has to be able to put the needs of the team before personal feelings as well, correct?

    In that I do not believe AJ has been doing the best job. My concern is that this will start to be a negative reflection on a team that should attract quality people and players.

    For example, reports are that our current players were upset with Marty’s dismissal.
    http://www.kffl.com/player/1980/nfl

    That in itself is not so important, but given that AJ’s stance on Donnie Edwards and Drew Brees was so publicized, could this not start to make people like Dielman want to look outside the organization before looking in?

    Reportably AJ would not even discuss the conflict between himself and Marty. This is unprofessional in my opinion. He should be willing to work the situation out for the betterment of the team.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2763552

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6466224

    AJ has made personnel decisions without consulting Marty or the coaching staff. While this is not required, it also does not build any sort of team work amongst the leadership of the team. Also discussing coaching situations in the locker room is the last place I think such a discussion should occur.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6468762

    Now before you all brand me as an AJ hater I am not. I think the team made the correct choice between the two. I agree with Merel Hodge:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2763629

    However, I hope in the future, with “AJ’s” guy in place that the leadership of the team will be more functional. That the GM will work with the Coach and not against (and visa versa). It is the Chargers that is important, not little kingdoms and egos. This should clarify what some of you have already commented on. I just wanted you to know my full point of view.

    There. flame away.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    my only concern is that whoever takes over has to know that this ship's captain is AJ Smith, in a way therefore being subserviant to him (i'm being devil's advocate)
     
  3. mapcap55

    mapcap55 BoltTalker

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    wow, that's a lot of work you put in there, big guy.

    I think that something should have been done about the impasse between these two guys a long time ago. I mean using Fran Foley to talk to your G.M.? that is beyond ridiculous...it's a wonder that this team won anything with a fracture like that in the leadership.

    it may be for the best that Marty is gone, but it sure makes A.J. look like a little boy threatening to take his ball and go home.

    after this is all said and done and Jimmy Johnson takes this team to a few Superbowls, A.J. will come out smelling like a rose, but right now he smells more like natural fertilizer...

    in my opinion it makes sense to dump the guy after his coaching staff deserts him, but that was after he became a "lame duck" coach. who can blame those guys for jumping ship?

    Well that is my best shot...i just don't have the keyboard stamina that conc does...:icon_shrug:
     
  4. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    The chargers have a great chance to really progress here. Marty would have brought the same old same old. Time for the team to get out of its doldrums and get in gear for the future. :yes: :abq2: :abq1:
     
  5. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I see AJ on the mound in the bottom of the ninth, bases load, 2 out's and a three & 2 count with Barry at bat and a one run lead. He's in deep doo-doo if this all backfires on him.

    If they turn this team over to the Hair so he can waltz into the Super Bowl on Marty's back then the whole thing was a set up. NO TO THE HAIR and NO TUNA.:bolt2:
     
  6. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    Is this another "Chargers Hire Cotrell" Thread? :icon_huh:
     
  7. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    That sure was a lot of work to say Conc prefers everyone circle jerking to the tunes of kumbaya.

    These people are NOT paid to LIKE each other. Nobody has to like anyone here for starters and that is silly asss tree hugging **** and fuc-king non-sense.

    Do your job or get the fuc out. :bolt2:
     
  8. cranberry

    cranberry BoltTalker

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    My concern is there a headcoach around who can lead all our probowl bound players to WINs. New coaches often change the
    hierachy ladders of a team. So 2007 will be a really new match up.
     
  9. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

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    Gotta admit, I really didn't see that comin :icon_eek:
     
  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You will change your tune. You always do.
     
  11. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    No tune has ever been changed. I have backed up everything I have said from Brees to Marty.

    Some just do know how to admit the truth for starters.
     
  12. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    All I want is someone who will work well with AJ

    I think there are some possibilities (Ryan, the Indy Assistant Coach, even Mariucci, Green and Turner all are friends with AJ), its just that Marty, and this has been known since route 1, is a stubborn guy who likes total control. He likes bringing in his own people and his own players (Tamarick Vanouver, Cory Raymer, Dale Lindsay, Donnie Edwards) whom he has worked with. AJ wouldn't stand for it, nor should he, when hte majority of Marty re-treds sucked ***. If you have a less stubborn head coach, and don't forget AJ gives the coaches total freedom on the field to gameplan and playbook, and one that is willing to not demand total control (hence why pete carroll won't work) then you've got a winner
     
  13. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    Conc -

    Good thread.

    I think many people, especially AJ Haters (no, I'm not including you nor bashing you) would use these types of blurbs to try and overstate their case on why the wrong guy was fired, or who the "true" blame should be placed upon.

    Stuff like ....

    What about bringing in crap like Leon Johnson, Tamarick Vanover, or staying with a declining Donnie Edwards, or waiving Wes Welker? How about playing Drew Brees in a meaningless game, seeing him get hurt, which took away AJ's ability to Franchise tag and trade Brees?

    One of these new blurbs (maybe the 1090 interview???) just said Marty said the problem existed since AJ was hired. What caused that? Did AJ come in with an attitude, or did Marty try to immediately grab more personnel control (and tick AJ off) like Marty had done in Cleveland, KC and Washington?

    I don't feel like looking up the link, but during this season of trying to establish Marty as "Coach CEO" while pushing full control of the offense off to Cam and defense to Wade (while leaving Marty unscathed for any MartyBall or playcalling blunders), one line made my eyes perk up:

    (paraphrase)
    Some questions on that would include why Edwards played at all on running downs. Why wasn't Cletis Gordon our KR/PR? My "ball watching" :) skills told me Steve Gregory was doing well in heavy nickel and dime packages late in the season, yet vs. the Pats we saw those packages revert to Hart and Jue getting playing time. Why?

    How many times did we see injured vets play, when it was obvious that it cost the Chargers? Steve Foley playing vs. the Eagles directly cost SD a game in 2005. Harrison playing in 2003, same with Seau. Edwards butt should have been on the bench for most of '05. Those (and many others) were Marty decisions that cost games.

    Marty's excuse for not going to the Senior Bowl (***Edit, I originally wrote "Pro Bowl" but meant Senior Bowl) was lame. Looks more like a temper tantrum now. Marty letting coaches interview for other jobs, while AJ wanted to squash them leaving looks like intentional destruction. Marty not wanting to interview qualified one gap 3-4 DC's - WHILE PUSHING FOR HIS BROTHER TO BE HIRED - smacks of a power grap by Marty.

    The only thing wrong with firing Marty was the timing. If blame is laid there, it's at Mr. Spanos feet mostly (and some to AJ for recommending that they keep Marty).

    Some of the posters here, me included, warned of this very thing happening. My contention was it was the right time to fire Marty after the Pats loss, because I was sure the Bolts would lose a few coaches, and why hire a bunch of coaches this season AND next season. The only way Marty would have been retained after the 2007 season is if he won the Super Bowl, and I think with the unrest in Chargers Park, it isn't a stretch to think that even if Marty won the big one, he still might get canned (not extended.)

    The bottom line: IMO, Marty's history suggests his desire for more power. I think he may have tried to bully a new GM when AJ took over for Butler, and that's probably the beginning of this fued. Marty continually seeked more power, and it finally came to a head this week. The right guy won out.
     
  14. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    What about the "Drew's arm is nuked and he won't be able to start the season" tripe? :icon_rofl:
     
  15. DjChemical

    DjChemical BoltTalker

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    All the pressure is on AJ & dean then. if this team misses the playoffs they get all the blame
     
  16. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Bullshiit. I said his arm would pop like Dave Draveky's arm and snap off like a lizards tail at the 50 yard line by mid-season.

    So he dislocates the other one.....I was close but wrong arm.
     
  17. Daddy_O

    Daddy_O Well-Known Member

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    Rock solid:tup:
     
  18. Daddy_O

    Daddy_O Well-Known Member

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    and what about that one time at band camp........:icon_rofl:
     
  19. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    I defended the coach from the following stand point to refresh your memory.

    The coaching carousel was infinitely worse than Marty so it is the lesser of two evils. Marty's track record against the Raiders made it palatable.

    I have often called out Marty's game management as my biggest pet peeve. What I did call out were posters who did not give the dude a chance from the get go which is bullshiit.

    We have the talent such that a monkey could guide the team to the Lombardi but it did not happen.

    At the beginning of last year, the mantra was Marty goes deep in the playoffs or it was later biitch.

    There were no excuses because we had filled all of our holes on both sides of the lines to be competitive across the boards.

    I would have said the same thing about anyone putting a clown wig on Don Coryell because he deserved the respect and had EARNED it for starters.

    There.

    Now you have the history straight so choke on it. :abq2:
     
  20. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    A solid post. The right desicion was made on whom to keep and who to let go. I hope this is all in the past is what i guess I am trying to say in a nutshell.
     
  21. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    History, one game you support Brees. next your sitting at a tail gater saying you dont trust him, after a win. Change of tune.

    Last year your were rah rah gung ho Marty, this year your drivin the buss over him. Change of tune.

    I am waiting for the turn on Hart! :lol:

    Its alright to change your mind.
     
  22. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    You do not read very well it appears. What part of Marty not going deep in the playoffs means off with his head do you not understand.

    I said over and over and over that Marty needed to go deep and he did not so he needed to be fired. How hard is that to understand?

    Brees hung on own stupid asss by being an idiot.

    You are obviously gullible to being duped by quacks.
     
  23. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I for one liked Marty and still do. He is a very good HC and has the record to prove it, he just never seemed to be able to close the deal. Hell, it took Cowher 15 years to git r done with the Stillers.

    As for Brees, I have never lost one minute of sleep over his departure, he couldn't get it right here either. Playing in the JV helped him out big time but the AFC boys brought him back down to earth on a regular basis. :bolt2:
     
  24. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    I do believe that the decision that was made was necessary for the interests of the San Diego Chargers.

    - Marty Schottenheimer, interviewed on ESPN News
     
  25. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    I just saw that as well a few minutes ago. He actually looked relieved to be out .... he does get his 3 million so ....
     
  26. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    It's starting to seem that way. Maybe Marty didn't want to be there anymore, and he figured it was better to get fired and be paid 3 mil for sitting on his azz than resign.
     

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