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Whats the one player you hope we land?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by And_1, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Round out my top 3 in rounds 1-4

    1) Kyle Fuller, Jason Verrett, Dee Ford
    2) Kyle Van Noy, Jack Mewhort, Joel Bitonio
    3) Marcus Smith, Demarcus Lawrence, Chris Smith
    4) James Hurst, Ej Gaines, TJ Jones
     
  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Scratch Bryant (we'll be waiting on him past when Brown's contract runs out). And while he's probably a little redundant (out the gate at least, after this season I'm the later becomes expendable), Ellington has some poor man's Randall Cobb/Kendall Wright upside that has 3rd round appeal.
     
  3. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Marcus Martin is a possible for me if he makes it to our 2nd. We have to start grooming Hardwick's replacement now.
     
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  4. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Not big on Lee. He's real good, but lot of issues this past year. Durability, route running and his hands all concern me. He's going to get vertical and win with speed but he excels in getting YAC. Its what he does best. But he needs to do a better job of releasing off man-press, not rounding his routes and taking extra steps and focus on securing the ball through the catch.
     
  5. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I trust whatever Joe D has in mind. If he thinks he can groom Nick McDonald (picked up off waivers from Green Bay) so be it. I trust whatever that man thinks, except, playing Troutman at RG and Rinehart at LG, they should of been flipped.

    Guys to watch in the later rounds are Gabe Ikard and John Urschel. Both fit the prototype and both are extremely intelligent, that's what Joe D likes from his C's.
     
  6. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Love Moncrief, Huff, and Adams. Adams has a whole lot of upside, he has a huge catch radius and is a red zone threat. He needs to be developed though.
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Bryant should have gone back for 1 more year, but he has some raw skills that are undeniable, he's intriguing to me because he would probably be a much higher pick in 2015. Either due to added experience and improvement or just because the class won't be as deep.

    Round 4 or 5 would be ideal this year but I'm not confident he falls that far.
     
  8. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Martavias Bryant = Stephen Hill
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    He probably would have but he's going to be an old rookie as it is, I believe. He turns 23 in December and if he went back for another year would be a 24 year old rookie.
     
  10. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    How do you know he's not Malcom a Floyd - injury issues though? I'm only saying if we haven't added a receiver by round 4 I might take a flyer. And again, he was last on my list there for a reason, my point remains I would not reach for any WR in this draft....particularly one that wears #3 for LSU again.:p
     
  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I was just comparing Stephen Hill's college career/workouts to that of Martavias Bryant. Both guys are/were too raw. Hey, hate on my man ODB all you want, he's gonna be a great WO for somebody lol

    But, yeah maybe I'd take Bryant in the 4th, maybe, he's probably really a 5th-6th considering how raw he is. Too much to develop IMO. We need a guy who can actually offer something his 1st year in the league.
     
  12. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    Disagree completely with Beckham jr.

    There are a number of issues with him

    #1 is only 5'11 198 and repped 225 7 times...... he is weaksauce and sucks as a blocker. There are lot of teams who because of his inefficiency in that area will refuse to play him anywhere but the slot.

    #2 for a guy who needs to make a living on route running, hands and speed because he has no box-out capability and will not overpower DBs physically, he only has good speed at best (plays slower than he times which when I say this about a WR is usually a huge red flag you want guys who time as fast as they look like they play), does not set up DBs very well with his routes and only has good hands at best. does not demonstrate consistent ability to pluck the ball out of the air and prefers to let throws get into his frame, limited catch radius and doesn't work the boundary very well.

    #3 this is a guy with rather limited production in college who is not a red zone threat and was completely silenced in big games. put up 3 TDs against a dogshit UAB defense and 204 yards against Furman.

    Odell Beckham is an overhyped player who absolutely does not deserve 1st round consideration or even second round consideration. Consider how many bust WRs come out of LSU like defensive players come out of Alabama and even more red flags are present. People who think this kid is worth going as high as #15 to pittsburgh are drinking the kool-aid. Profiles to me as a potential top 15 return specialist with potential to be a below average to average slot receiver.

    I can even get irrational and freaky and say most guys with a Jr. in their name suck dick and usually bust in the NFL.
     
  13. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I don't hate ODB, I just don't see him as a #1 receiver and if we're spending 25th on a WR the ceiling needs to be higher....especially with our other gaping holes in the roster. Just my opinion.
     
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  14. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Have you watched tape on him?

    #1 - Who cares how much he benched? The guys he will be blocking weigh no more than him or just over 200 lbs. That has to be the most overrated thing at the combine is bench reps. He put up 3 more than your boy Jarred Abbrederis.
    #2 - He doesn't pluck the ball out of the air?! He does that on occasion, he does let throws get into his body, but name me one prospect who doesn't let at least 1 catch get into their bodies. Its a habit for prospects which sometimes and still carries over to the NFL. He also has 33 inch arms and 10 inch hands. Big measurables for a 5'11 guy who is "small".
    #3 - He had 5+ catches in 9 of his 13 games played. He's a playmaker with the ball in his hands.

    You do know what stereotypes are right? You can't say every WR that's came out of LSU will be a bust. So I guess Dwayne Bowe is a bust then?

    ODB is top 5 WR in this draft. I expect him to go anywhere from 18-32 in the 1st round.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Well, one other thing I'd throw in there - and this may ruffle some feathers - I don't consider WR to be a premium position - so it's going to have to be one standout damn wideout (either with top-notch tools and needing polish like a Demaryius Thomas or Torrey Smith... or Kenny Britt before his immaturity was so well known - or a guy who has every other "elite" trait to his receiving game except prototypical size AND has 2-3 years of high-end production to his name in the collegiate game like a Jeremy Maclin or Percy Harvin type) to get me to use a non-Top-10 1st on a WR (reasoning being, if you're spending a Top 10 pick on a WR typically you are picking from the cream of the crop of the class so you're getting guys that check off every box unless you're buying into the hype on guys who don't really have those tools - e.g. Crabtree).
     
  16. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    I can't say every WR that's come out of LSU will be a bust, because I DIDN'T say that at all!

    Honestly when I read opinions like this it almost makes me go slightly delusional and start hating on the given player even more, much to my fault this has happened in the past.

    So I won't hate Beckham Jr, because he's not a bad receiver... he's just not a very good one.

    Jared Abbrederis works the boundary 10 times better than Beckham Jr., picks apart soft spots 10 times better, is braver and more focused going over the middle and offers more red zone potential. There is no comparison. Abbrederis is like a bottle of 1952 pinot noir straight out of the french countryside and Beckham is like chilean riesling from 2012.
     
  17. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    and hanestly how can you compare this kid and abbrederis?

    abbrederis is a legitimate #2 option who you can get in the 3rd round

    beckham jr looks like a journeyman slot/KR who you want to spend a pick on where picks are usually reserved for guys who at least have the potential to become #1 WRs or make profound impacts on either side of the ball.
     
  18. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    ok then, in the middle rounds (saw a mock draft that had him going to the Chargers in the second round)
     
  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    2nd round's where I expect him to go. I wouldn't be surprised by late 1st , but I don't expect it.

    Certainly not opposed to the guy - in fact I prefer him over certain bigger school guys (like the entire UF contingent - and he's a better scheme-fit for us than Bashaud Breeland or Keith McGill).
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Agreed, I would also add that when you have a QB like Rivers you don't necessarily need to spend high picks on WR. The development of day 2 and 3 talents like Antonio Brown, T.Y. Hilton, Eric Decker, Alshon Jeffrey, Anquan Boldin, Jordy Nelson etc... seems to go a lot smoother when they have competent QBs throwing to them.

    Look at Greg Jennings with Favre/Rodgers, then with the Vikings....case and point. I'm not sure Marques Colston has a career at all if his 1st team hadn't been with Drew Brees, if he'd gone to Oakland his might have washed out 7 or 8 years ago.
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that a prototype #1 is worthless, just devalued (slightly) inversely to the caliber of your QB. When you have a QB who surpasses that qualify-able threshold of being better than "above average" (in comparison to other starters) it becomes less necessary to have "the total package" at receiver and rather to have receivers who (all) have specific traits that tailor to your QB's strengths (some of these, universally, are great feet and hands - the later you can teach to some degree, but unless there are other intangibles at play that boost the guy up elsewhere, I'm far less interest in cultivating a guy who carries the knock of "habit of drops" - more than likely while he's learning to catch consistently, someone else on the depth chart who can is going to pass him up... case in point, see Brown, Vincent and Meachem, Bobbo). That's part of why I'm not a fan of Martvis Bryant or especially Kelvin Benjamin for their projected value-points.

    And yes, surprise some as it may, this is where MTL and I are on the same page with Abbrederis; the guy has among the Top 5 feet for a WR in this class, he doesn't get open because of great speed or overpowering the press at the line, but there is no wasted motion in his footwork, it's that polished. He forces corners to play mistake-free technique if they're going to beat him and he realizes his limitations and plays within them (an extremely underrated quality among receivers) rather than trying to force against the grain. A guy that used to plague us for years by the name of Rod Smith had very similar traits to his game. Common misconception is that you have to be a burner to be a deep threat - that's false, you've just got to be able to gain separation and consistently shake the corner on deep routes to get behind him. That can be achieved just as much by consistently selling your fakes and cuts effectively to get the corner to commit to a step in the wrong direction and have to redirect - thereby typically losing "a step"/speed and having to play catch-up. If you're can do that, you're going to see teams start shading that safety more your way (one of the aims of having a "deep threat" beyond just "big play capability") because he'll have to adjust to his corner not consistently holding single-coverage.

    I'd even go so far as to say that Rivers has shown that he's much more predictable when he has that prototype - some of it was Norv's offense, but a good chunk is on Rivers and where/to-whom he decided to put the rock. When VJ was here, Rivers forced the ball to him much more - and it wasn't for lack of dependable catchers; they weren't household name, standout stars but they were efficient.
     
  22. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    That game and video is just a short sample of how many horrible passes didn't get to Abbrederis because Joel Stave is dogchit.

    Hanestly with an accurate QB Abbrederis could have put up 93-95 catches for 1350 yds and 10 TDs this past year.

    Jared is a sexy sleeper pick for a ton of people who realize he is more than a 4th or 5th tier WR but the reality is he is not getting the respect he deserves with many people having a 4th-5th round grade on him. I don't give a chit he was a walk on, the guy can flat out get open and gets bashed for being slow when he ran a 4.4 and actually has decent accerlation and decent straight line speed.

    also i have been a pioneer in position value analysis for years and am well known for having called out AJ Smith after the 2005 season and demanded him to keep turner and extend him on the cheap and trade ladainian tomlinson for the good of the team

    position value mainly goes down as follows

    #1 QB
    #2 Pass rusher/Offensive Tackle
    #3 Interior defenders/interior linemen
    #4 wide receiver/tight end/cornerback/safety
    #5 running back

    that is how i rank positions as they should be valued given the state of the game today and

    i also wanted to murder aj for spending a 1st round pick on a running back as if it wasn't bad enough he traded up for one.
     
  23. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    man watch the penn state game jared is over or underthrown time after time

    the guy is like a 24h convenience store, he's always open

    screw the stats i suggested before, dude could have caught 110 passes for 1600 yds 13 TDs for all i know if he had a QB who wouldn't miss him 3-4 times each game
     
  24. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Only caveats I'd add to that are ones that are more scheme-specific than universal, that is unless you're also lumping "interior pass-rusher" in among "pass-rusher" (a high-level penetrating 3-Tech who can collapse the point of the pocket and negate the opportunity for the QB to buy time by stepping up into the pocket is extremely valuable to teams operating out of 4-man fronts - which was still what the Faibanks-Bullough brand of 3-4 Wade was running here as the WOLB/Merriman was rushing 85-90% of the time). I'd also bump a "true centerfield" safety up to that 3rd tier - they're rare and guys get miscast in that role far too often by teams trying to force the issue, but much of what recent consistently great defenses like Seattle and (until Reed departed) Baltimore were given so much more freedom to wreak havoc because of the tour-de-forces they had holding down that deep third. While people generally bemoan the drafting Larry English over Clay Matthews pick the most, the one I'm hardest on is trading up for Ryan Mathews and simultaneously passing on Earl Thomas. That move could have gone from mindnumblingly short-sighted trade to brilliant trade with that selection and we're honestly probably looking at a substantially more effective defense, even if most of the other personnel changes/additions over time had remained the same as they were.

    Been saying for a while, you don't need great corners to shut another team's passing attack down - just effective, consistent pass-rush and above average safeties (and competent scheming, but you're not going to get much of anywhere without that anyway).
     
  25. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    My realistic targets by round:

    Round 1:
    • K. Fuller, CB, Va. Tech
    • J. Verrett, CB, TCU
    • X. Su'a-Filo, G, UCLA
    • B. Cooks, WR, Or. State
    • O. Beckham, WR, LSU
    Round 2:
    • J. Bitonio, OL, Nevada
    • D. Easley, DL, Florida
    • T. Murphy, OLB, Stanford
    • J. Matthews, WR, Vandy
    • D. Adams, WR, Fr. State
    Round 3:
    • B. Ellington, WR, S. Carolina
    • J. Halapio, G, Florida
    • D. Jones, DL, Penn State
    • D. Dozier, OL, Furman
    • W. Richburg, C, CSU
    Round 4:
    • C. Reid, DL, Princeton
    • J. Landry, WR, LSU
    • T. Turner, G, LSU
    • R. Herron, WR, Wyoming
    • E. Gaines, CB, Missouri
    Round 5:
    • C. Leno, OL, Boise State
    • A. Hal, CB, Vanderbilt
    • G. Ikard, C, Oklahoma
    • Z. Kerr, NT, Delaware
    • S. Evans, WR, UCLA
     
  26. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Abbrederis is a guy I'd look to steal in the middle rounds what with the concussion concerns.
     
  27. MtlBoltsFan

    MtlBoltsFan Jesse Ventura/Howard Stern 2016

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    DaQuan Jones is lazy as hell, wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Absolutely sucked before his senior year and he doesn't have what it takes to be a champion. Wouldn't even bring him in as a UDFA.
     
  28. Bigkdb

    Bigkdb BoltTalker

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    No way we'd get him but...Kahlil Mack lol
     
  29. Duffman57

    Duffman57 BoltTalker

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    A couple guys who I really like include Joel Bitonio (OG), Su'a-Filo (OG/C), Jeremiah Attaochu (OLB), Phillip Gaines (CB), Marcus Smith (OLB), Paul Richardson (WR), Brandon Cooks (WR), Donte Moncrief (WR), Weston Richburgh (C/OG), Cam Fleming (OG)
     
  30. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    So I'll add onto the previous one I started..

    round 1 - Anthony Barr, Odell Beckham Jr., Brandin Cooks, Eric Ebron, Kyle Fuller, Timmy Jernigan, Xavier Su'a-Filo, Jason Verrett
    round 2 - Davante Adams, Jeremiah Attaochu, Joel Bitonio, Pierre Desir, Gabe Jackson, Marcus Martin, Donte Moncrief, Brandon Thomas, Kyle Van Noy
    round 3 - Dakota Dozier, Bruce Ellington, Robert Herron, EJ Gaines, Demarcus Lawrence, Rashaad Reynolds, Chris Smith, Marcus Smith
    round 4 - Cam Fleming, Ryan Grant, Victor Hampton, Josh Huff, TJ Jones, Aaron Lynch
    round 5 - Ross Cockrell, Kevin Norwood, Terrence Mitchell, Brent Urban
    round 6 - Dri Archer, Shaquil Barrett, Calvin Barnett, Russell Bodine, Deandre Coleman, Aaron Colvin, Kadeem Edwards, Justin Ellis, Andre Hal, Seantel Henderson, Zach Kerr, Jonathan Newsome, Ronaldo Powell, John Urschel
    round 7 - Beau Allen, John Brown, Zach Fulton, Ryan Groy, Ricky Havili-Heimuli, Matt Hazel, Brandon Linder, Cornelius Lucas, Eathyn Manumaleuna, Viliami Moala, Khyri Thornton, Eric Ward
     

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