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Why is everyone calling for AJ's head?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by mandude, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    I am not sure if you'all have the memory of a goldfish, or are just ****ing hypocrites. Not 6 months ago he was "GAWD", could do no wrong, we were selling his piss by the cup... now after Norv and his *** clown coaching staff screw the pooch we start going after AJ.

    Yes, I know he was instrumental behind bringing in both Crotell and Frankenstien. But let's give the man some credit, he did rebuild this team with an unbelievable roster of talent in a very short period of time.

    I think calling for Norv and Cortell's head is totally called for. They've done nothing except take an elight team and turn our play into dog-****.

    However, let's not forget the reason we are an elight team as almost everything to do with AJ's ability to draft amazing talent, this past draft included.

    I think we need to forget about Marty (i miss him too), and find a head coach and a DC that can get along with AJ and lead this team.

    That being said, AJ needs to bring his ego down a level or two... and do what's best for the team and not his power control. But hopefully this has been a bit of humbling experience for him.

    anyways my .02
     
  2. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    AJ Smith built the team that went 14-2 last year, fans that call for his head are being pretty ignorant IMHO.

    All that needs to be done is for AJ, or the Spanos clan (Am I correct in thinking it's the owner who hires/fires the HC?) to realize a mistake was made when they hired a guy who's too damn incompitent to even beat the Chiefs with the talent he has.
     
  3. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    Gee, not sure anymore. Maybe AJ built a mediocre team and it was Marty that lifted them to the next level. Players don't loose the talent. The coaches know how to bring it out of them. AJ's power struggle cost this team a coach that "coached" this team to a 14-2 record. He gambled and this time he lost. And in doing so, he brought the fans down on the players at the end of the game and that is not a good thing.
     
  4. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty much my point. (well, the latter portion)

    AJ put together a team that has the talent to go 14-2....we just need to have a coach that can bring them there again.


    I agree, which goes back to my point that he just needs to realize a mistake was made and find another head coach that's not as incompetent as Norv.

    As far as the "power struggle" goes...it takes two to tango. Marty was just as much at fault in that mess as AJ was. It just so happens that AJ held the trump card.
     
  5. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    The problem is, he can bring in Vince Lombardi, that will not guarantee us victory. I know it is too late at this point (or maybe not) but we had the coach here to get this team in the right direction and most importantly, get the most out of the players we have. I'm not so sure that another coach will do any better.:icon_shrug:
     
  6. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Marty Schottenheimer is a good coach, but he's not the only good coach to ever coach the game.

    There are other coaches who can win games when given good talent.

    Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Marty Schottenheimer is the only guy who can win with the talent the Chargers have just because Norv Turner is the worst head coach in the history of the game.

    And, you're right, Vince Lombardi wouldn't guarantee victory...but, you know what? Neither would Marty Schottenheimer.
     
  7. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    I'm just a pissed off frustrated fan. I agree with what you are saying but last years loss was stupid mistakes by the players against the Pats. So unfortunately, we will never know if Marty is capable of leading a team toi the SB. But he was definitely headed in the right direction with this team.

    And besides.....I'm also a Mets fan. So I'm sure you can understand my stance of sports right now.:icon_evil: :icon_evil:
     
  8. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    The way i see it, hoping or even talking about bringing back Marty is about as useful as hoping your divorced parents are going to get back together. We need to start thinking about whose going to turn this club around now. I am afaird to go to the end of season, miss the playoffs, and then end up starting all over AGAIN with a new head coach.

    I am willing to give Norv and company to mid-season, but if we are not 4-4 at a minimum, and showing major progress, I say let's chalk this season up to a misstep, get some new and exciting blood in, and use the rest of season to prepare for next year.
     
  9. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    AJ deserves to take the heat. He forced Cottrell onto this staff and that resulted in Norv Turner being the HC. We should have had better candidates lined up around the block for this team with this talent level. Instead AJ INSISTED ON COTTRELL which limited the pool of HC's to dumbass "yes" men.

    No good coach in his right mind would want Cottrell as his DC. AJ forced us into a coach with the WORST CAREER RECORD for an experienced hire for the sake of Cottrell, a bomb everywhere he's been without Wade.

    THAT is why AJ will take heat and deserve it.
     
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  10. Yngwie77

    Yngwie77 Well-Known Member

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    Same here, Charger and Met fan. This has been a brutal month.
     
  11. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    This would make sense if they didn't have a bunch of would-be head coaches interviewing for the job until they chose Norv Turner.
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Look, I'm about as frustrated as I have ever been in my life at San Diego sports teams.

    Yesterday was quite possibly the most disheartening day ever in my life as far as sports go.

    Yeah, there have been worse days for both the Padres and the Chargers, but combined it's probably right there.

    All I am arguing is that our venom needs to be pointed in the right direction, and that direction is not AJ Smith.

    Did AJ make a mistake in bringing in Cotrell? yes.

    Did they make a mistake in hiring Norv? Yes

    Now let's direct our venom at them and hope they correct those mistakes.

    If AJ insists on keeping these mistakes, then, and only then, do we direct our venom at him.
     
  13. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    I hear you man, but the reason we've all been a fan of AJ up until now, is that he's been a guy who believes in a player, and sticks to them and has for the most part always been right.

    He applied the same thinking to picking his head coaches, and was wrong. the real test will be if he will be able to admit that he was wrong and adjust.

    But to take away everything he's done and say he should be fired is completely unfair, and bit knee-jerk. We wouldn't even have a team to be disapointed in if it wasn't for him.

    And he still could be proved half-right, there might be a better HC out there than Marty for the Chargers.
     
  14. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Everyone knew about AJ and his demand for Cottrell. Why waste their time interviewing?? Carroll sure didn't. Spanos talked to him and he told Spanos he wasn't interested. No coach in his right might would be with AJ pulling his crap and wanting to pick the DC.

    Head coaches in this league put together their own staff. Cowher would never agree to that. No way Parcells goes for that. Fisher wouldn't go for that (if he was available). The GM doesn't just pick a DC and force the HC to accept it.

    Notice all those other "candidates" were DEFENSIVE guys? They didn't have a chance in hell of getting the job. Token interviews. Rivera? Doesn't even know the 3-4 we run. No way he was a serious candidate. He hasn't proven a thing outside of Lovie. Ryan? Change the system. Wouldn't work with AJ's pick of Cottrell for DC. Singletary? Change of system. Wouldn't work for AJ's pick of Cottrell for DC.

    He did a crappy job of getting candidates & part of that was his ***** for Cottrell.

    I said before and I'll say now we should have stolen McDaniel from the Pats. Hurt a key AFC opponent and get of the best young offensive minds in the game. New System? SO?? Rookie coach? So? Kiffen, Tomblin and Whisenhunt sure are looking good in their first year. That's because GOOD coaches coach players to better performances. NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER ON THIS TEAM HAS IMPROVED OVER THEIR PLAY A YEAR AGO.
     
  15. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    Ok, but I still one upped ya. Atleast your Padres are still alive.:icon_tease:

    Where I differ with you is that we do need to direct some venom at AJ. The fans need to show him their disapproval on what happened last year. Not that he gives a ****, but I'm sure he loves to hear the fans call him Gawd with everything he has done. But the handling of the Marty situation put us in a bad position. All feasible HC canidates were already gone and then and onl then did he decide to relieve Marty of his position. Leaving us with no one to coach this team. But in his mind....anyone could coach this team with the talent we have.
     
  16. Prito James

    Prito James BoltTalker

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    Darren Sproles looks better this year. :icon_tease:
     
  17. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Are you giving him credit for everything Butler did too? You giving him credit for UDFAs that the coaching staff recruited/developed? Are you marking him down for being a hard head an losing players we sure could use right now (Edwards)?

    He's far from the only one that put together this team. The stars aligned and gave us a Super Bowl window. He IS clearly the ONE guy that had a ***** for Cottrell and put us in this current coaching staff to trash the talent.
     
  18. Prito James

    Prito James BoltTalker

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    We could have had Wade, Manusky and Chud running this team had Marty been fired. The only reason he WAS fired is because he let the staff get picked apart. You don't let your top OC and DC replacements interview if both the OC and DC are in the running for HC. That is what killed us right there. Were ****ed from that point on. The staff was gutted in an almost unprecedented fashion. I can still see the logic in what AJ did, consisdering the staff gutting. Spanos didn't fire Marty and they gave him that total slap in the face extension offer. Marty said FU and gutted our staff and now we are ****ed.

    The real issue is what do they do now? Cottrel defense is as bad as Dale Lindsey's. Pagano or Rivera need to DC. I think Pagano should have been give the job to begin with. The players actually LIKE him and they loved Wade. You can tell they hate Cottrell.

    Norv designed the playbook now hand it over to Shelmon, whom I am sure won't abandon the run. Norv better become a HC, like Marty and stick his nose in everyones ****.
     
  19. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    How does Pete Carrol not wanting to interview for the job back up your argument when others were still interviewed?

    I agree, and I'm already on record as stating AJ made a mistake with Cotrell.

    I just argue that this does not negate the team he's put together as long as he can admit to this mistake and move on.

    All hearsay and all completely irrelevant.

    The claim you made was that nobody would want to step in and be the head coach of the Chargers, except a guy like Norv Turner.

    These guys were interviewed, these guys wanted the job, which completely shoots down your asinine claim.

    Whether or not they were "token interviews" and whether or not the Chargers wanted Norv all along is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

    But he could have possibly attained more if not for that, I'll concede that much.

    Would have been a nice idea.
     
  20. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    Where did you hear that? Or get that sense? Not saying I disagree, but I would love see any information that gives us insight into what the players think of the coaches.
     
  21. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.

    Dean Spanos fired Marty, not AJ Smith.

    Sure, you can point to the rift between him and Marty as the reason why, but as I said before, Marty's as much to blame for that as AJ was.
     
  22. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    But the point is that even is it were a 50/50 thing between Morty and AJ, Morty paid all of the tab and AJ got off with a freebie.
     
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  23. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    And I counter argue that we wouldn't be in any better shape if it were AJ who paid the tab.

    It may have taken a bit longer to see the effects, but in a year or two everyone would be crying for AJ to come back.

    The mistake in this entire debacle was hiring Cotrell and Norv, not necessarily firing Marty.

    In a perfect world Marty and AJ would have gotten along and Marty would've been extended. But they didn't. That's ******.

    They need to find a better replacement for Marty.
     
  24. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    But it was also public knowledge that the 2 did not like each other. Marty went about his business for the best of the team. And like SDchrger said, marty paid the price not AJ. AJ let personal feelings affect a business decision.:tdown: :no:
     
  25. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a member of the "fire AJ crew." However, I do believe that his sizable ego is a key contributor to the mess that we currently find ourselves in.

    The whole Marty/AJ deal was about two massive egos that were destructive to the team. I'm even fine with the firing of Morty. The timing of it and the decisions made since then have been horrible. AJ has to take responsibility for that.
     
  26. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    And I would counter your counter and say we would not be in any worse shape in a year or two because we have our talent signed up for many years.

    In regards to firing Marty, it is being proven already that firing Marty was a mistake. The players are not playing for Norv or Ted. Whatever the reason....it just isn't happening. Marty got the most or enough out of the players to be a winner (regular season that is)
     
  27. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    If I said fire AJ it is out of frustration. I don't believe he should be fired but he needs to understand what is best for the team, not who "HE" gets along with.

    And yes, the timing was just plain bad!!!!
     
  28. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    *Merriman got in an obscenity laced tirade against Cottrell and it was played off as "competitive speak". This was in the UT Nut and Bolts section about two weeks ago.

    *Clinton Hart said they needed to get the plays in faster (regarding the Patriots game) and the next time he would call a time out.

    *LT is "lost".

    *Rivers and LT get in a sideline shouting match and Gates breaks it up (where are the coaches?)

    When you start to add up the bits and pieces, it looks like a floating turd.
     
  29. Prito James

    Prito James BoltTalker

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    I believe I read a report that the players were in favor of Pagano at DC after Wade and Manusky left.
     
  30. mandude

    mandude BoltTalker

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    So what are you saying? back in January, Spanos should've said "thanks for stocking the roster, we don't need you now... goodbye?"

    That's nuts... you can't build an organization or business around that attitude. You hold onto your best people with tooth and nail.

    Now saying we did that to Marty, is arguably true... but we did go 0 for 2 in the playoffs through three seasons... thus the frustration.
     

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