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Will AJ ever admit his wrong decision?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by tboltzcali, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'll remain consistent when you begin to remain consistent.

    Since AJ doesn't hire and fire coaches how, exactly, does his ego factor into the situation?

     
  2. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    He has a say in it. He can advise to keep his staff. This team has shown that they will stick with a coach longer than some others might. So I say 3 years. You disagree that is fine. Doesnt change my mind a lick.
     
  3. Showmeyourbolt

    Showmeyourbolt New Member

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    AJ definitely had a very large say in it. If people remember one of the reasons why we went with Norv over Ryan, was that Norv would take Ted as the DC, whereas Ryan told AJ that he would bring in Donnie Henderson to be his DC. AJ has an obsession with Ted for some strange reasons. Maybe Ted has some dirty pictures?
     
  4. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Nope, AJ worked with Ted in Buffalo. Same as Phillips. AJ has a confort zone with some people he has worked with. Norval, Ted... I dont think AJ looked hard at the others, because he 'knew' what he woud get with the old group.

    That said, Ted had a really good D in Buffalo, sometimes people change?
     
  5. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    So, since he didn't have any say in Mike Riley, how is that relevant?

    Consistency, man
     
  6. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Who is the constant? Who was around during the Riley years who is around now. I know you know the answer and want to be obstinate. But c'mon already!

    Consistency man...

    Are you so young that you have no sense of history? Do you think that that Spanos are going to change there ways when it comes to coaches? C'mon....
     
  7. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you can't have it both ways.

    Either AJ's ego plays into the situation or it doesn't.

    If Spanos owning the team and having not fired Mike Riley right away is all that factors into it, we're doomed to 3 years of Norv irregardless of anything that has to do with AJ and his ego,

    or AJ's ego factors into it making what happened with Riley completely irrelevant because there was no egomaniac GM to factor into it back then.
     
  8. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    And the only real point I'm trying to make is that with every situation there's different factors that played into the decisions that do not factor in now

    Nobody can look at what happened with one head coach and say with any kind of reliable certainty that that is what's going to happen with Norv.

    I mean, if you choose to be a glass half empty type and convince yourself that the chances of Norv beging gone before 3 years from now is less than that of me landing a date with a super model go right ahead, that's your choice.

    Personally, I choose to just wait and see what happens, and if they do keep him around then, and only then, will I get irate about it. (unless they keep him around because he won two straight Super Bowls, anyways, but I don't see that happening.)
     
  9. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    My judgement is also reserved until the playoffs unfold, one way or the other. If we don't make the playoffs or perform poorly, Norval should go. There is talent on this team to be better than we are playing so far. If he stays, then at a minimum, Cottrell should be sent packing and Rivera given a shot.
     
  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok, I respect your right to wait and see. I tend to believe trends are important, and it is not wise to disregard the trend because it doesn't give you the result you like (if that is the case).

    The only coach I personally remember the Chargers getting rid of in short order was Gilbride.
     
  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Actually I can.

    Spanos not firing coaches + AJ's ego = a longer stay for Norv.

    It is as clear as 1+2=3.
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, you're only assuming AJ will let his ego get in the way of asking for a coaching change when it becomes apparent Norv is ineffective.
     
  13. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    BINGO! Yes! That is how I see it! His coach is going to get as many chances as possible! That is EXACTLY what I am saying!
     
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    But what grounds do you have to go on to come to this conclusion?

    What head coach has AJ desperately held onto in the past to save his ego?

    (by "held on to" I mean not making the recommendation. Let's not get into the "who has the authority" back and forth here again.)
     
  15. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    What fcuking grounds do I need? What grounds do you have to say it wont happen?

    I am sorry you cant handle opinions that differ from yours, but you better get used to it. People do not have to explain themselves to you over and over until you get it.
     
  16. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    1. You mentioned trends earlier and how you're basing your opinion off them, so I was wondering where the trend was with AJ that leads you to the conclusion that he'll let his ego get in the way here.

    2. I don't have grounds to say it won't happen....that's my point, we don't know.

    3. I CAN handle other people's opinions.....can you handle mine?
    Just because I counter argue yours doesn't mean I can't handle it.

    I respect your opinion but why should respecting it keep me from stating mine?

    Wake up buddy, that's called debate.

    If You can't handle it don't hit the reply button.
     
  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Nothing bugs me more on internet message forums than a guy who insinuates someone is incapable of "handling a differeing opinion" just because he has the audacity to state his differing opinion and proceed to debate the issue.

    If I was incapable of handling your differing opinion, Conc, I wouldn't be engaging myself in civil conversation here with you about it.

    Someone who can't handle someone's differing opinion tends to resort to drifting away from the issue and, instead, starts dishing out pointless insults and smack talk.

    Either that or they just plain ignore it.

    I have done neither here. I've kept the conversation civil and I'm sticking on point. I'm simply debating.

    Don't tell me I can't handle your differing opinion just because I choose to put further argument behind mine.
     
  18. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    His ego. It has been shown in the press many times. Donnie Edwards, Antonio Gates benching because of the contract dispute. Drew Brees negotiations. All point to a man who is very sure that he is always right. So Norv will get as many chances as possible.

    Actually, your opinion differers from mine, that is your whole problem. Historically you have a very difficult time dealing with differing points of view. You always want to 'debate' but are only focused on rebuttal, not actual 'debate'.

    I can handle yours. What I dont like is that you feel you have to constantly ask the same thing over and over till people realize that you are not interested in listening and give up on you.

    I have stated above what you consider a debate to be, and that is not what I call a debate. If you disagree, that is your right, but I am not going to go back and forth because you are incapable of accepting people may thing differently than you.

    I hope that clears it up for you Leo...
     
  19. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    [​IMG] You choose to continue to drone on and on much like B4L without listening. [​IMG]
     
  20. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough

    So now you're telling me how I feel?

    I have no problem whatsoever with your opinion, I just choose to argue my point.

    But go on telling me how I feel if it makes you feel better.

    This is where you have me wrong.

    What I generally do is try to comprehend where someone's coming from and when I don't I ask questions to see if I can get to comprehend their side of the argument.

    I do tend to get repetitive when they keep arguing the same point that makes no sense to me, and that is a bit of a fault, but for the most part I'm trying to understand your argument, which is a far cry from "not being interested in listening"

    In the case here, you suggested you came to your conclusion based off trends, knowing there was no trend with AJ and head coaches I felt the need to ask you to further elaborate on it.

    What's the problem here?

    And again, quit ****ing telling me what I can and can not accept.

    Just because I choose to keep the conversation going doesn't mean I can't accept it.

    If I couldn't accept your opinion this window would be closed and I wouldn't be responding.

    Unfortunately it didn't.

    But keep telling me more about myself, I'm interested to learn because you obviously know more about me than I do.
     
  21. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Did you even read any of that? or did you just see a 2nd response from me and took the pot shot.

    you are the one who completely derailed this conversation in favor of flaming me but you're accusing me of not being able to handle differeing opinion?
     
  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Hey I call them like I see them. It is clear that you and I do not agree on this. I can accept that, can you?

    Have a happy thanksgiving Leo.
     
  23. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Yup. That is how I see it. Sorry if you feel differently.
     
  24. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    That's not really fair, Conc

    This isn't just some random sports debate that we can say "Hey, we disagree, let's go about our own ways and be cool"

    You took a pot shot at me, you claim I "can't handle someone's opinion" and now you've painted me into a corner.

    I can either

    - say nothing and let the accusation stand

    or

    - try and further explain myself to further explain that I can handle opinions and continuing to elaborate on mine says nothing about my ability to "handle" opinions, while also adding that you are complete wrong about me "not caring about 'listening' to the other's opinion" when that couldn't be further from the truth....but by doing this after you played the "Well that's what I think" I'm making your claim look right.

    Whatever, Conc, have a happy Thanksgiving, but you just took a low blow on me and that's not cool.
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I am sorry you feel that way. The fact is I stated my opinion in many different ways. You did not like it and kept on asking the same thing over and over. To me that means that you disagree and are not even trying to read what I say, instead posting the same thing over and over to get me to say "Forget it" so you can claim victory in your debate.

    You, yourself said you had nothing but your opinion to show I was wrong. But you continued to argue. What am I supposed to take from that? What I took is you cant handle differing opinions. That is what it looks like to me, for what is stated above.

    I only have your written word to go off of and what I observe. So the low blow as you call it, was me doing what I do. I tell you what I think. If you wish to say that my perception is wrong, explain to me why other than I hurt your feelings.

    The fact is I think we have 3 years of Norval, you think 2. I can handle that, and frankly hope YOU are correct based on what I am seeing this season.
     
  26. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    This is what's really bugging me.

    You're jumping to the conclusion that I'm not even reading what you have to say.

    To the contrary , I read....and even re-read everyone's posts to ensure I'm not missing something

    I keep posting when I can't understand what someone's trying to say....that right there could be my fault.

    I saw no trend with AJ and head coaches, so I asked you to further elaborate.

    And furthermore, I never debate to "win"

    You can take it to mean that I still don't fully comprehend your side of the debate and answer the questions.

    Hidden amongst all this drivel is me responding to your last on-topic portion of the conversation with "fair enough"

    because once you spelled out the dealings with the contract negotiations I comprehended the line you were drawing.

    I still disagree with it, but by that point I comprehended where you were coming from.

    Because you jumped to an unnecessary conclusion based off only my written word.

    You just assume I can't handle opinions and, instead of asking me (at the very least) you told me I can't handle differing opinion, and even went as far as to continually tell me what I am and am not reading.

    That is what I found insulting.

    Well, that and playing the "well that's my opinion, can you handle it?" card amidst this particular conversation, because that wasn't really fair.

    And I was simply trying to ask you to elaborate on how you're drawing the conclusion.

    In the end you told me you drew the line between AJ drawing the line in the sand in contract negotiations and told me that it makes you feel he'd be stubborn with the head coaching situation.

    At that point the conversation would have ended had you not included the pot shot with it.

    You see, I can handle your opinion, but sometimes I like to know where you're coming from with it.
     
  27. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Isnt it easier to ask for elaboration rather than to continue to ask the same thing over and over. Would you care to elaborate, is different from 'what grounds do you have to...'

    The latter has the tone of argument, and to me says that you disagree with me and dont like it.
     
  28. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Because they mean the same thing.

    I didn't realize the lead in to my question was that important.

    Just, in the future, don't read too much into my responses.

    And I wasn't, exactly, asking the same thing, even if you read it as such.

    You gotta understand, just because you think you're conveying the same information with every post doesn't mean I'm reading the same information with every post.

    That's the limitation of the written word....the same concept that lead you to incorrectly believe that I'm not handling your differing opinion well.
     
  29. BOLTS4LIFE

    BOLTS4LIFE Banned Banned

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    And the will equal plenty of empty seat at Qualcomm or seats filled with fans of the visiting team.

    Not to mention... much fewer voters for the ballot on the new stadium.
     
  30. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I have to admit to being pretty ignorant regarding the record of the Spanos family as team owners. So, seeing that they are the longest enduring constant in the Chargers organization, are they also a large part of the maddening inconsistency of this franchise?

    AJ has an ego - no one in their right mind would deny that fact. Conc pointed a few good examples. Not saying that he hasn't been right to take a hard line at times, but he doesn't seem to be very accepting of opposing viewpoints or directions. I also have to think that he plays a very big part in coaching decisions.

    So, what I'm asking here is this - will there always be these seemingly outrageously poor decisions being made as long as the Spanos' own the team?
     

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