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WR Cluster F*&k

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Bolts4lyfe, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    According to The Sideline View's Adam Caplan, Robert Meachem's $5 million base salary in 2013 is fully guaranteed.
    In order to release Meachem -- who lost his starting job to street free agent Danario Alexander -- the Chargers would have to eat the $5 million in addition to absorbing that cap hit on top of signing bonus proration. Meachem signed a four-year, $25.9 million deal in March. He received $7.5 million to sign. The contract makes it likely Meachem will return to San Diego next season, but through nine games he's been a complete free-agent bust



     
  2. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Meachem, Royal, Brown, and Floyd are all signed through 2015 or beyond. Not one of these guys has really proved themselves to be more than "pedestrian" And now we're stuck with these guys for some time.

    This just means that any hope on bringing in a guy through FA or through the draft is not looking promising. Unless we cut one or all we are going to have one of the worst WR platoons in the NFL for a long time. In 3 games Danario Alexander has stepped up in a big way and has taken over that Number 1 spot, the question is can he stay healthy, and also does he look better because everyone else is that bad or is he really that good.

    Are we going to burn another spot (CB, O-line, OLB, D-line) just to re sign DX next year and have to deal with having the highest paid number 3 and 4 wr's in the league.

    Also with what we have it appears that Browns future with the team isn't looking to great, even with DX and Floyd he's going to be buried in depth to really have a shot.

    Does anyone know what the exact cap hit would be (and what our current cap for next year is) if we cut Meachem and Royal next year?
     
  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Floyd doesn't belong on your list. He's been money.

    And it appears we're stuck with Meachem through next year, but I haven't seen similar reports to this for Brown or Royal. Unless their base salaries are guaranteed as well we're not stuck with them.
     
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  4. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    He has, but so have James Jones and Brian Hartline. I wouldn't exactly call those 2 "Elite". Now I love Floyd but I was saying Floyd is better suited to be a number 2 WR. He isn't that Larry Fitzgerald, Roddy White, AJ Green type of threat. He's more of a Anquan Bolden, Andre Roberts, Lance Moore great compliment type WR
     
  5. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't calling Floyd elite. I wasn't even calling him a #1 WR.

    I was just saying he doesn't belong on a list of players who have been worthless and complaints about being "stuck with them".
     
  6. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    The term "elite" is ridiculously overused. You know whose elite? Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald... it's the creme de la creme (not just the "he fits the HWS prototype, so he's a #1, therefore he's 'elite'" argument). And notice how the teams that those three receivers are all doing this season (pretty much underachieving like we are).

    Floyd's biggest knock was that he couldn't stay healthy, thus far he has... and he's produced.

    Brown's been injured and prior to the injury was looking like a true find at the close of last season... as a rookie (the OP is aware that rookie receivers typically don't produce much historically, eh?). Yet, one injury which yes... it's unfortunate that it's the kind that takes longer-than-expected to heal but it's not like it's career-altering (it's simply unfortunate luck) and we're writing him off as being some mediocre crap we're "stuck with". Give me a break.

    Meachem... yes, he's pretty obviously not going to be the #1 Norv was talking him up to being. Guy has had the benefit of playing prior with a QB who was perpetually kept clean because he had two elite (legitimate case here) guards protecting him in a scheme that was heavily focused on the guards. It sucks. Oh well. If Brown picks up where he left off in his development and produces, I can live with having overpaid for a depth WR (it's not like we'd be the first team to have done that).

    All this clamor for a "prototype #1 WR" is starting to get out of hand. It seems like people got spoiled by having VJ here - and even then were/are over-rating him in terms of what he actually did. It isn't a necessity in this league in order to win (the last team to win a Super Bowl with a legitimate "prototype #1" was the Colts with Reggie Wayne - AND Marvin Harrison playing opposite him - so take it with a grain of salt). Guys like Greg Jennings, Marques Colston (who Floyd is every bit comparable to), Santonio Holmes, and Hakeem Nicks certainly aren't AJ Green or Larry Fitzgerald. Hell, Larry Fitzgerald's and Randy Moss' (THE prototype against which all other prototypes are held) team made Super Bowls and failed to win them.

    The hard and simple truth is that the teams that have been out there spending the kind of (top 10) draft pick necessary to acquire these "elite" WR's have been historically mired in mediocrity and unable to get over the hump (point to Atlanta all you want, they've had the Ryan/White connection for 3 years and Julio added in for another 1 past this current one and they've yet to win a playoff game). Meanwhile teams that have fleshed out their corps with 2nd round (occasionally late 1st round), 3rd round, and otherwise sound UDFA gems have been the ones consistently winning (and Super Bowls and playoff games... not just regular season games, though they're winning those too).
     
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  7. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    When's the last time this team even flirted with Salary Cap Hell? I'm asking because I don't know but I'm sure there's plenty of room for signing quality free agents... as opposed to signing the dogshiit AJ is in love with lately.
     
  8. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Two completely different issues.

    I want to agree with something LBC said, with regards to Brown. The kid has looked awesome. Not greatest of all time awesome, but legitimate playmaker and not "just a guy" awesome, which is very impressive considering where we were able to acquire him. I think that lumping him in with the performance failure of Meachem and the schematic failure of Royal is somewhat undeserved.

    Further, do we even know that Royal is a bust? It's not like he fits in at all with Norv's scheme. Meachem does, but Norv wouldn't know what to do with a slot receiver even if Wes Welker were explaining it to him in subject-verb-object sentences. I'd like to see what these guys can do with a HC who actually schemes to their strengths, instead of trying to bend the players to his system. I don't think that we're likely to see Meachem and Royal turn into the amazing additions they were promised to be, but I think that we'd likely see decent production from them.
     
  9. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    What I was saying was, when push comes to shove, The Roddy Whites, Reggie Waynes, Marques Colstons etc. have been there when needed, extra yards, tds, on and on and on. Our guys, Floyd included have been shut out when needed most.

    Brown is a player I have high hopes for, he has looked awesome but then again so has Meachem in N.O. when going against number 2 or 3 Db's and not the number one guys. Until we see that, he too is just some guy.

    Im just bummed that it appears we have our hands tied with the group we have, cant really draft one for a couple years like a Cobi Hamilton, Coradell Patterson, cant cut them, cant trade them. We just have to sit back and hope for the best
     
  10. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Salary cap-hell? Very rarely. We've never really been working with a massive amount of freed up space in any one year over the past 5+ years though, save for the year when our number 1 free agent priority was ensuring our franchise (and at that point deservedly Pro Bowl caliber) QB was nearing the end of his rookie deal.

    Then again, go look at the players that have actually hit the market (as opposed to the ones that are teased to hit but their teams ultimately end up re-signing them or slapping the franchise tag on them), and look at them in terms of who they were and what they actually did after they signed their new deal with their new team. Mario Williams has done squat in Buffalo. Carl Nicks and Cortland Finnegan made probably the biggest impact of any of this past off-season's league-wide FA signings (and Finnegan was set to follow Jeff Fisher wherever he went).

    Now let's look at the FA WR's:
    VJax - The obvious one. Yes, he's had quality production - the manny in which he's getting it is largely in chunks off largely only the deep ball. Hey, I won't knock production that's consistent. Still waiting for him to produce against a better than mediocre secondary this season though (thus far the best passing defense he's faced this year is Dallas' whic hheld him to 29 yards on 1 catch).
    Randy Moss - Comparable if lesser production to what we've gotten out of Meachem
    Jerome Simpson - Less than we've gotten from Meachem
    Braylon Edwards - Comparable at best to what we've gotten from Meachem
    Pierre Garcon - Nice preseason, done squat when it actually counted.
    Brandon Lloyd - Far less than what he was projected to output and this is in what was supposed to be the ideal fit offense (and QB) for him.
    Laurent Robinson - Beaten out by Cecil Shorts for a starting spot in Jacksonville.

    Meanwhile the likes of Welker, Bowe, Wallace... all franchise tagged. My point being there that, 99% of the time, teams don't let great players hit the open market unless they're trying to hold onto a much more important (see quarterback) great player. The Julius Peppers' of this league very rarely if ever hit the market.
     
  11. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Yeah I'm not giving up on Meachem yet, the guy has gotten open which is the hard part, the problem is Rivers has missed him or in a few cases he's flat out dropped the ball.
     
  12. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Simple fact. At full health, talent-wise, the wide receiving corps we have right now is superior to the one we had in '09 (at least the ones that we're actively participating). Albeit against what in hindsight was a somewhat weak schedule, Rivers produced one of his greatest statistical outputs with the '09 corps when his line kept him clean enough to do so. Thus logic would suggest that if we keep him clean with a more effective OL, then tools are there for the more talent WR corps to outproduce the prior one.
     
  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It's also that Rivers is under constant pressure. He has much better rapport with guys like Gates, Floyd, and even Mathews (as he should considering he's practiced/played with all of them longer than he has Meachem or Royal). Thus when he gets into a panic-type situation his first reads are the guys he knows well enough to trust that they'll be where their routes say they should be. Meachem's ended up being about the third at best read in most pressure situations.
     
  14. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I really miss Vincent Brown.
     
  15. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    Floyd, Brown, Alexander, Meachem, Royal, et. not the best WR corp in the league, but is good enough, put some olinemen in front of Rivers and a new HC and this team can win consistantly

    Draft some CBs while you're at it
     
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  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Isn't having an abundant of WR's a good thing? Think we're getting a little carried away here..

    Meachem & Royal have been disappointments. But, I'm not ready to give up on them just yet. There signed long term for a reason. I also think that they were pretty much labeled by the media and AJ Smith as "guys that will replace VJ" hasn't helped their cause.

    Brown was the best WR in camp according to insiders and coaches and players. So losing him the 2nd pre-season game to a broken ankle was very unfortunate. But hopefully he comes back, and not too soon, and makes a contribution in a December run the Chargers will have to once put together.

    Floyd has surprised me, in the fact that he hasn't missed a game yet. And is putting up WR1 numbers and is on pace for a 1,000 yard year. But, this guy seems to disappear in adversity, ex. New Orleans, Denver, and Tampa Bay. When those teams were making a comeback and we need someone to get open and make a play. That has disappointed me a bit.

    Alexander is another pleasant surprise. Nothing was really expected from this kid, but he has the VJ build and speed, so this offense fits him just perfectly. Just when there is a change at HC and offenses I hope they can utilize his skills set because he has talent.

    But, bottom line is, these guys won't get the ball unless there is a pocket for Rivers. We have to give Rivers atleast a few seconds more in a clean pocket and these receivers to release and get open.
     
  17. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    See and this is why I really have to agree. Our receivers aren't stellar, but they are good enough to put us in a situation where spending the requisite pick on a HWS candidate is more of a luxury than we can afford. If we're making a luxury pick I'd sooner it be in the trenches than a skill position player as the inside-out philosophy holds a lot more credence than the outside-in one does.

    Fact is, already developed skill position players can be acquired via trade if you already have everything else in place (yes, you pay a premium but when you have less short-term needs to address through the draft, those picks become slightly more expendable - not "Beathard expendable" but then draft pick value gets inflated by most NFL fans, insomuch as what Jerry Jones was willing to overpay for Roy Williams does not benchmark the market for WR's).
     

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