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WTF Defense

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by gonzokrb, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Boy, as a Cal guy, I've had a hard time watching his swift fall...not long ago he was one of
    the best 5 defensive players in the league. Would I try to get him at this point?
    Hell, yeah! Stack that roster with Golden Bears! Blue & Gold in blue and gold.

    But in all seriousness, how can you not take a chance? How can you sit pat with our current secondary?
     
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  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Spoken like someone who hasn't seen him play lately. Dude's been done for 2 seasons now and a lot of people just refused to acknowledge it because of his past dominance and name-recognition.

    The current Asomugha looks completely inept and lost in zone (something, you know, we run pretty damn often), can't shed tackles on blitzes, and tackles like Sean "The Human Cape" Considine. The guy hasn't suited up for the Niners in the past month, was beaten out for the nickel corner spot by Tramaine Brock, and just got dropped for Eric freakin' Wright. Increased age sapped his speed and he was always a guy who was extraordinarily superior in M2M coverage than zone.
     
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  3. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Spoken like someone who hasn't seen our secondary play lately. :p
     
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  4. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Because for how mediocre at best Crezdon Butler might be, he still contributes on special teams... something Asomugha doesn't. We can't get consistent pass-rush to save our lives, even Richard Sherman and Asomugha in his prime would struggle to maintain coverage with the lack of pass-rush we produce.
     
  5. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

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    How'bout a little double-coverage on Garcon after like the 50th time we got burned???!!! WTF??!!!:confused:
     
  6. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Read my post above. We get no pass-rush... no secondary is going to succeed with no pass-rush (#2 in sacks on the team currently is a DB). A competent/productive pass-rush can mask a middling-at-best secondary; the inverse, however, isn't the case. Bringing an old, physically-declined corner who won't contribute on ST's (while occupying the roster spot of someone who could) and who has been burnt like toast the past 2 1/2 seasons doesn't upgrade our secondary.
     
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  7. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I actually agree with you on the ST angle, and I won't pretend to be entirely objective
    where Golden Bears are concerned. And c'mon, LBC, how often do I give you crap? :)

    No doubt our weak pass rush is exposing our secondary, but that's obviously not the only weakness.
    Is Asomugha a shell of his former self? Sure? But he was also able to hold a spot (until today) on a roster
    much better than ours. Yes, he probably got a little extra time because of the Bay Area connection,
    but I'd still want to bring him in for a look.
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    That's all well and good until you consider context. He held that "spot" (mind you, a spot where he wasn't activated on game day's for a solid month prior to his release) because the guy(s) who would have pushed him from it were on the PUP and ineligible to take his spot until now.

    Now consider further context, he looked like Derek Cox has on a team with minimal effective pass-rush (if not worse), but Aso did it on two teams that had little trouble getting to the passer (this season's 49ers and the Eagles teams of the past 2 years). he had the benefit of effective pass-rush and still looked like hot garbage.

    If we ran more man-to-man (which it still baffles me that we don't because zone-coverage with no pass-rush is completely counter-productive and just asking to be nickel- and dimed-to-death), I'd be far more opening to giving him a look. But I've seen him operate in schemes exceedingly similar to Pagano's with better talent around him and look as bad, or worse, than what our current DB's have.
     
  9. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, I admit I haven't seen much of him this season, since he started Week 1...there hasn't been
    much to see. The wild card for me is always practice. Coaches see these guys for hours every day...
    so they know them in a way that fans never will. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for
    coaches to deal with public perceptions (positive or negative) of guys that radically contradict the
    complete athlete they're seeing so much more of.
    I haven't followed the PUP tribulations of the 49ers, so I'll defer to your obsession, there. :p

    I guess the moral of my story is that Fangio & Donatell know 100x better what the current state of
    Asomugha is than any of us...and that can be viewed positively (for a half season they saw him
    as worth a roster spot on possibly the most talented team in the league...or they just now decided that
    he's out of gas, and it's time to cut their losses. I totally "get" your reasoning for "the glass is half empty"
    but, as much as our secondary has struggled, I'd invite him to a workout on the chance that
    the glass is half full...on the "beggars can't be choosers" philosophy...
     
  10. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    If we ever get a pass rush, our corners would be quite a bit better. Pass rush OLB has to be priority #1. Then cb, or LT.
     
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  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Absolutely no one here is going to argue that first point.
    That OLB is a more immediate need than CB is also probably virtually unanimous here.
    But I think you try to improve what you can, when you can.
    (maybe Patrick, Marshall & Crezdon are better than 2013 NA...but I'd still like a look-see)
     
  12. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    A nose tackle that commands a double team and an OLB that can get to the QB are what makes a 3/4 tick.
     
  13. gonzokrb

    gonzokrb Well-Known Member

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    To opperate a dominate 3-4 you have to have that kind of nose tackle...aka..Jamal Williams! Unless we get a great nose tackle shouldn't there be some consideration of a switch to a 4 -3? A quick look at the league's top defenses (Sea, Car, KC, Cin) 4 - 3 scheme. The next level tier is mostly 4 - 3 also.
     
  14. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Why?
    I mean, of course, you absolutely want a Jamal Williams to eat up two blockers, in a 3-4. That's ideal.
    But why is it mandatory that that be so? You have seven guys in the box either way,
    and in this pass-happy era, why would you "have to have" that 7th guy be a lineman instead of a LB?
     
  15. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Lot of one-gap responsibilities in 3-4 these days too. Things have changed a bit in the past 10 years.
     
  16. gonzokrb

    gonzokrb Well-Known Member

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    Well Bolt Fans? Here we are again, venting and bitching about an under performing team. Until we get a bad *** DC will be the poster children for Pink Butterfly AKA Donald Butler! With few exceptions, McCoy needs to step into that locker room and put the team on notice. "Heads will roll" if you don't show an NFL effort!
     
  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Same story, different year. Except, this year players are being called out for their effort.
     
  18. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX Hall of Fame

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    Well unlike previous years. The Defense played well early on when healthy. We are getting a few guys back on Defense. I more susceptible to believing this Defense will get turned around than in previous years were there was a talent drought there.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Its the same thing every year. A player goes down and the excuse is "Well, Pagano doesn't have much to work with, we're hurting, etc."

    How are the Patriots doing it? They've lost Jerod Mayo and Chandler Jones. Arguably their best in the front 7. Yet they've created pressure the last few weeks and have been able to get to the QB.
     
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  20. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I love the smell of football in the morning.

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    Right now, about all they might bring him in for is to see if he can drive the team bus...
     
  21. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Who is calling players out?.... Weddle did say something but it was a generic... McCoy refused to call out an individual publicly which is fair enough.

    But I hope to God the likes of Butler and Reyes are being hauled over the hot coals in Chargers Park behind the scenes. Butler should be benched immediately (already too late).
     
  22. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Weddle never makes comments like the ones he did after the game.

    Weddle: "I'll push my guys much as I can and expect the most out of them. If they don't respond they won't be on the field with me"

    Wonder who he's talking about there? McCoy also said Butler is healthy, and they count "loaf" plays, which are non-effort plays, that's what they call them. Sad some of these players are getting paid to not put an effort in.
     
  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Like Dublin, I'm also a little confused by the "this year players are being called out for their effort" comment.

    That sounds kind of strong, like individuals might actually be being held accountable.

    And while I liked Weddle's post-game remarks (better than anything in that game, for sure) it seemed short of
    "calling out" anyone. No one is mentioned, specifically...
    Hell, he even says "If" they don't respond... :eek: pssst...Eric...there's no "if" about their lack of performance...
     
  24. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Heads will roll? Where? Are you suggesting they fire the whole lot of them? Where are all of the replacements coming from? Other teams practice squads? The CFL? I haven't seen this tactic work since the Gipper fired all of the air traffic controllers.

    I still don't get how McCoy escapes the chain of responsibility here. These are the guys he has chosen to go to war with. Bad managers blame the employees when they should have known they are bad employees in the first place.
     
  25. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Yes nobody specifically is getting called out, but he's bringing it up. Which means he's calling a player or players out. Weddle's been in the league for a long time, so he knows to keep this stuff in house. I'm sure he's gone to that player or those players and let them know how he feels rather than blasting them via the media. That kind of stuff tears a locker room apart.

    Especially Weddle being a captain, he needs to say things like this but not put a name on it. Can't have your captain calling guys out specifically via media. But, again, the fact he even brought that up, makes me believe Weddle seems to think there are some players who aren't giving the team their all and he doesn't like it one bit and I don't blame him.
     
  26. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I'm not saying that I disagree with how Weddle's handling it in public...
    just questioning whether we actually have any evidence that anyone is really, specifically being "called out."

    (I mean, guys in a chat room saying "Well you just know Weddle's doing such-and-such behind the scenes..."
    plus $4.50...gets you a Pumpkin Spice Latte at Starbucks...just saying'...if there's really any "calling out" happening it's on the down low...)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2014
  27. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Yep you can't go public with names... but I'll be shocked if he is not talking about Butler and Reyes for starters. Even though #32 and Gilly seem to be tight, there's another guy I'd be in zero hurry to re-sign. The attempt at stopping (not even going to use the word tackle) Landry on the sideline that time was downright disgraceful. He needed to be lit up there and Gilly cannot do this.
     
  28. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I remember when Leslie O'Neil was calling out people in the locker room, and got labeled as a 'cancer'. I imagine that for Weddle to be talking about other people there has to be a lot of friction in the locker room right now.
     
  29. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Yep but privately it probably needs to come to a head. No point in brushing this stuff under the carpet esp after the complete meltdown in Miami. It's put up or shut up time. Maybe guys get 1 last chance (I'd still bench Butler now), but either way guys probably need to hear what they might not like to hear now before the season goes up in smoke.

    7 games left, plenty of time to salvage it.

    Oh and sort the feckin Offensive playcalling out. Get back to protecting the O line by calling quick developing plays instead of the Norvlike wait wait wait then chuck it crap.
     
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